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Is the S&P Full of it?
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billmyers
Aug 08, 2011
5 votes
5 debaters
1
1
1


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2
Yes


billmyers
Aug 08, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I would like to know how the S&P allows countries like France who have a higher % of debt, or Canada/Germany who have higher % of government spending "healthcare" to have a better credit rating.
The S&P cited debt as their main reason for downgrading the US, why then was the US the only nation downgraded?
I think it has more to do the politics of it and scare that American politicians would skip payment/defualt for their political advantage. I can't think of any other reason, how do the Netherlands, Germany, France, how do they have better credit with more government gdp spending and higher % debt

 
billmyers
Aug 08, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: rebirth Show

I completely agree with all but entitlements. Some of those other nations have far more entitlements than the US. It is the willingness "no matter what the government or economic system" to pay your debts.

 
billmyers
Aug 15, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: melody Show

Problem is a government is not a family nor is it a business. That simple truth undermines the whole mathematical equation true or not. Businesses seek profit, that is their job. Famalies seek to make their lives better. Government fills the social gaps which in the past have led to explotation, suffering, and instability. The government also provides infrastructure, funding to state and towns, grants/loans, wages, foriegn diplomacy, a military etc.

The government is not a business nor a family, lets just get that out of the way.



 
billmyers
Aug 15, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: accipiter Show

It is not taboo, but some seek to make it so. Just as the notion that higher taxes decreases investment "Warren Buffet today telling congress to raise taxes". It is made into a story line of unprepared soldiers left on their own in hostile areas bla bla. In relaity much of the militaries spending is on domestic infrastructure, wages for bureaucratic positions in domestic bases, and is essentially a centralized on demand economy of quota based production. In America Republicans tend to favor military spending more "with the exception of Eisenhoer ;)" because Southern and desert states tend to have large military complexes with large amounts of civilian labor employed by them. It is true Democratic areas have military establishments as well "Groton, CT. San Diego CA." but their local or regional economies are more diverse.

 
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3
No


rebirth
Aug 08, 2011
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: billmyers Show

The reason that Standard and Poor reduced the United States' credit rating rather than those other countries is because of the acriminious debates and the nominal last minute debt ceiling quick fix convinced S&P that the two major parties will have difficulty working together in the long run. Especially since the entitlements are going to explode in 20 or so years.

 
pgandal
Aug 09, 2011
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: billmyers Show

The S&P did not cite debt as a main factor. They cited political instability, and a general weakness of the American government. They saw the last minute agreement to raise the debt ceiling as a manifestation of the extreme difference between the country's political parties, and saw the weak agreement as a sign of an inability to form effective policy.

 
melody
Aug 12, 2011
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Here is an interesting piece I got in my email that sets it out. Why don't you read this and then decide what kind of credit rating you would be prepared to give to this family

The U.S. Congress sets a federal budget every year in the trillions of dollars. Few people know how much money that is so we created a breakdown of federal spending in simple terms. Let's put the 2011 federal budget into perspective:

. U.S. income: $2,170,000,000,000
. Federal budget: $3,820,000,000,000
. New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000
. National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
. Recent budget cut: $ 38,500,000,000 (about 1 percent of the budget)

It helps to think about these numbers in terms that we can relate to. Let's remove eight zeros from these numbers and pretend this is the household budget for the fictitious Jones family.

. Total annual income for the Jones family: $21,700
. Amount of money the Jones family spent: $38,200
. Amount of new debt added to the credit card: $16,500
. Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
. Amount cut from the budget: $385

How many of you want to lend money to the Jones family now? If you do want to lend them money do you want to give them the best interest rate?
Come on think about it.

 
accipiter
Aug 14, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
It continually amazes me that the issue of military spending does not come up more in this discussion. Is there some unpatriotic taboo associated with talking about the military budget?

 
accipiter
Aug 16, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: billmyers Show

The government is a business. It happens to be a very badly run business. They collect revenue in the way of taxes and they provide services such as infrastructure and social services. The problem with the model is simply that it run by a bunch of self serving thieves. The model holds true. You cannot spend more than you have continually without some consequences in the end. Governments need to learn this.

 


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