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Do gays choose to be gay?
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shelby10
Jun 26, 2011
29 votes
27 debaters
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10
Yes, God inabled man free will.


summit
Jun 26, 2011
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: shelby10 Show

There is no scientific evidence supporting the fact the gays are born gay, no biological condition that might change a sexual preference. Research has been done on a pair of identical twins with the same DNA and genetic makeup, yet one of them is homosexual. Why would only one be gay? Because he chose to live this sick lifestyle. If you have ever looked at these kind of cases one-hundred or more years ago, you would know that people like this were a lot less common, and that's an understatement. But people still say it isn't their fault. The reason we have so much homosexuals now is because our constantly deteriorating society tells them it's okay. How else can you explain the sudden increase in these weirdos?

 
summit
Jun 27, 2011
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: shelby10 Show

Icannot believe you just pulled that one. After that comment, I won't need any help proving these people are shallow.

 
jaden
Jun 26, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
They become gay for whatever reason (abuse, psycholgical disorders, attachment wounds) But, its their choice whether or not they remain gay.

 
summit
Jun 26, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: sullyman45 Show

That really creeped me out sullyman45. I bet you think yourself so clever to come up with such a lengthy summarization of gay's input in our twisted society (which you proved wholly), but I believe you missed one detail in your creepy lecture: this debate is on whethe or not a gay can choose his/her sexual preference, it's even entitled CAN A GAY CHOOSE TO BE GAY?

What did you expect me to think? Whew, I was worried no one would use donated sperm. Seriously?

 
summit
Jun 27, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I am feeling ashamed to participate in this disgusting debate, and especially weirded out that I would lose. I guess I should have saw it coming since our world is becoming home to more and more morally corrupt creeps.

 
summit
Jun 27, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: delax Show

Treat everyone equal?! You're acting as if we're talking about a racism issue! What about the comment I made earlier- we have far more homosexual today than we did pre-nineteenth century- has everyone just blown it off because it was too dangerous to their cause? If any of you are religious (which is hard to believe of most of you) you'll have heard of God's promise; He will never tempt us further than we can resist.

I must sound narrow-minded to you, for not accepting the wonderful gays of the world. If you are so sure of your stance, then enlighten me! And don't even try the statement, "how would you feel if...", because I know how I would feel. I would feel like a demented fool for coming to accept "the NATURAL feelings" that the poor homosexuals are sadly forced live with, even though they desire it completely.

So you just try to "enlighten" me. You obviously have no regard for evidence, but give me all you think you can do. The really sad thing is, as shallow as you are, you will still win.

 
summit
Jun 27, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: andreivey Show

Can you not see that over half of Americans support the choice homosexuality? I was not saying that anyone with opinions differing from mine were corrupt, but that those over-half-of-America and all the others were corrupt for justifying gayism.

You know, it's a well known fact that people respond much more aggressively when tried on beliefs they hope to be true than facts they know to be true. Am I scaring you Andreivey?

 
summit
Jun 28, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: cotillion Show

Are you really chastising me for a lack of facts while the rest of your fellow supporters make comments that are totally out of the process of their minds (and misguided sympathy)? In fact, I have been the only one to offer evidence. And could you explain to me the logic you seemingly saw existing between increasing homosexuality and increasing civil rights, as to the theory that the afore was somehow along the same lines as the latter? As for your comment on species adaptation... oh man, I laughed my head off when you said that.

 
summit
Jun 28, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: shelby10 Show

I would normally be forced to devise a lenghty rebuttal explaining all my secular evidence, but I have come to accept the fact that some people are lazy and/or can't read. When you understand what I am talking about (or after your mom reads it to you) you may begin a legitimate debate. But if it is too complicated (ooh, quadruple syllables) don't worry about it, everyone is special in their own way.

 
summit
Jun 28, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: shelby10 Show

"A teenage girl can't help loving the first cute boy she sees walking down the hall." If you can't interpret that as shallow.... This is sad that all of you (who seem like very intelligent people) would succumb to the obviously intended molding of society.

 
summit
Jun 29, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: lay455 Show

I really don't understand why you had to go out and make that poor, grammar lacking comment. I am not a whole lot better, but can't you see that we're way outnumbered?

 
summit
Jun 29, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Hass no one looked at the Evidence?

 
summit
Jun 29, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: theudas Show

You are right thuedas, I was a self imposed jerk. Maybe that's my natural self, or I just have difficulty seeing and stating things from an objective point of view, either way, I should have watched the way I acted. That was no way to gain supporters. I would like to point out that you and I are the opposing leaders of our individual views. I won't attempt to state the antagonist. You and I obviously come from very different backgrounds, as you give great revere to logic and common sense (of the world), while I may posess those traits, but am overcome by a higher regard. In direct response to one of your addresses, the reason my faith doesn't accept homosexuality is because we know it isn't manifested without choice. We are the one church on earth that recieves revelation from God. You can say what you want about that statement, you may call it a sole claim that everyone else will make, and that it has no part in a debate, but the fact is; that's how I know, regardles of how many criticisms you make. That's my evidence and I feel the deepest remorse for all of you who don't posess the same guidance.

 
ambereyes
Jun 30, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
well honestly im kinda in the middle...i think some people cant help and are born that way, but i think some people do it for attention or other reasons. ive known people that are totally boy crazy then they like girls and then boys again. i think if you are gay your gay! also i think that sometimes its a mental thing, BUT i do believe there are people that are really gay, but i dont think everyone that says they are gay are gay!

 
jaden
Jul 04, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: accipiter Show

Because, i've talked to homosexuals, ive taken psychology classes, talked to spiritual therapists, and have been on a couple websites that all point to those being the big 3 roots of homosexuality.

 
striker241
Jan 24, 2012
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Gays are just non conformtists. Being different is the new thing. Homosexuality was never a BIG issue until the more recent era. Sure there were isolated incidents in the past(Alexander the Great was gay) but nothing to this scale. Same thing with drugs. In the past drugs were not a big deal until introduced. Only isolated incidents(Shakespeare was possibly on drugs). I would accept gays more if it was not on the large scale it is now. In my theory, gays trick themselves into believing they are different. WE ARE ALL THE SAME. i can bet you that whoever refutes this will come at that statement quite literally, pointing out obvious differences in people. I mean that phsycologically we are the same. They go gay because of the world around them. In our society the world is all about being different now. hence the mass amounts of gays. I find it hard to believe that tens of millions of gays worldwide are "born gay". Im sure there is a condition where some are born that way, but i can bet you that condition doesnt affect every single one of the gays we have now.

 
Dan Zhukovin
Apr 25, 2013
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Yes, but only some of them, and its usually out of some trauma or out of some desire to self-please after some time of living a different kind of sexual life. This isn't even a matter of debate, there are clear records of them doing this in some number.

 
John Brown
Apr 14, 2015
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: andreivey Show

So where do pedophiles get their feelings from?

 
John Brown
Apr 14, 2015
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: andreivey Show

So where do pedophiles get their feelings from?

 
+ Add Argument

17
No, people can not help who they love.


accipiter
Jul 03, 2011
6 convinced
Rebuttal
People are homosexual, heterosexual and bisexual. At some point their choice to pursue their natural inclinations seems to bother others. The only confusing thing to me is why anybody would be bothered by what consenting adults choose for their lives.
The simplest answer to this is for every heterosexual person to determine when they decided they were sexually attracted to the opposite gender. (I know when it was for me... There was this poster … but that is a whole other story.)
Sexual preference is not a choice. What you do with your preference is a choice.
Heterosexuals are the majority of the population as a simple matter of fact. The majority is not 100%. Simple math will tell you there is a percentage in there of homosexuals. When a heterosexual being first decided it was time to pursue a sexual partner of interest to them that was a choice. Same applies to homosexuals. They didn’t choose to have an interest in that sexual partner they only chose to act on the feeling.
I would further argue that it is not a matter of love. It is a matter of sexual attraction.

 
andreivey
Jun 26, 2011
4 convinced
Rebuttal
If people could choose whether or not to be gay, then there would be less bashing. Do you honestly think that a person would choose to be an outkast? Do you think a person would choose lose family and friends just because he/she preferred to be gay or bi. No, they don't. Maybe it is a choice on whether or not to act on their urges and temptation just as it would be for a straight person. But it must be horrible to live life holding back your true self. If a person chose to live that way they are toturing themself by staving the body and mind of romantic and personal happiness.

 
accipiter
Jul 03, 2011
4 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

I find it interesting that you are invoking scientific evidence or lack thereof to support a claim. Then you make reference to a time period of 100 years ago with no supporting documentation. Following that you make a subjective statements involving the words "sick lifestyle and weirdos". Please decide if you are arguing empirical data or subjective reasoning. Trying to do both only confuses the issue.

 
accipiter
Jul 04, 2011
3 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

At the risk of a discussion point falling on deft ears I will make an attempt at enlightenment for you. I am not holding out much hope of success though.
Although this is not an issue of race there are parallels that can be easily drawn. I have not seen any supporting documentation that the number of homosexuals has grown proportionally. If you have that evidence please share it with us.
You are definitely right in your assumption that some of us are not religious. You can count me in that group. I have not seen any organized religion that makes the least amount of sense to me. As far as I can tell most if not all of them have some claim to direct contact with god and only they know the truth.
Accepting homosexuals is not really and option. Homosexuals exist whether you are offended by the notion or not. I am going to make a wild assumption here that the vast majority get up every morning and continue on a path of life that makes sense to them regardless of your opinion. The simple fact that you are not doing anything to actively eradicate them means you have some sort of acceptance that they live among us.
There are things we all find unpleasant in life. Apparently, the fact that homosexuals exist is one of the things that you find distasteful. I am not a fan of white bread. I do however accept that it exists and move on with my life.
My understanding of simple Christian dogma is that there is only one judge in the universe. “Judge not and all that sort of thing”
That was the best attempt I have for the moment.


 
accipiter
Jul 03, 2011
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

Was it your natural self as in you were born that way? Or do you choose to be that way? That was a very interesting attempt at a back handed compliment/insult. You believe you are above logic and common sense but you possess some of those traits. That is very convoluted reasoning. You say you are partially logical and have partial common sense but are overcome by a higher regard. You don't accept something because you just know. How is the arrogance of proclaiming yourself the one church on earth with the ultimate knowledge of god any different from every other religion on earth that make the same claim and then claim that is no part in the debate. If its the position from which you are arguing then it is directly related to the debate. If you bring faith based knowlege with you and present it as evidence then it is subject to scrutiny. Otherwise you are making an argument based on I know because I know.

 
shelby10
Jun 26, 2011
1 convinced
Rebuttal
I personally believe that people can not help who they love. A straight man or women can attempt to be involved with the same sex, however they would not be truly be gay or bi because the feelings would not be there.

 
andreivey
Jun 28, 2011
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

not at all my friend, and i do admit that you have a valid point. Do I agree with homosexuality no, but can i tolerate it yes. And like you said God wouldnt tempt us farther then we can resist so I can understand your view. But you and I honestly can't say they choose to be gay because we're not gay, but we can ask, did we choose to be straight?

 
theudas
Jun 28, 2011
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

Funny, your ashamed to be part of this debate? Well I guess you had to say something to save face… But really? You just went and called everyone who disagrees with you “Morally corrupt creeps”.. yet you have been the one to call names and make false claims. Grow up boy.

Before I get into all the crap you’ve said I have just one question: If being gay is so wrong and morally obscene, how is it hurting people? NO Christian, or any other religious person for that matter has been able to bring up one reason on its own outside of “My holy book says so” and have it stand… If your Going to call something wrong, explain why. Don’t just shift that responsibility and say “because ____ says so”

First *There is no Scientific Evidence that supports the fact the gays are
born gay….
→ Well at least you recognize it as a FACT, so yes you got that part right, but the Fact is backed up by scientific evidence. Science has confirmed that homosexuality is natural, and in many circumstances beneficial. And a great deal of evidence has surfaced that supports the claim to it being a biological thing rather than a learned one.

*If you have ever looked at these kind of cases one-hundred or more years ago, you would know that people like this were a lot less common…*
→ Obviously. I mean it was your religion and ones like it that got involved with the law and made things like homosexuality, working on Sundays, etc punishable, even with death in some cases.. of course if you go back before Christianity got its hold on countries homosexuality was present.. take China for example.

*How else can you explain the sudden increase in these weirdos?*
→ again with the name calling? How about because they were always here, but felt threatened by people like you who would impose religious dogma and construct their ability to function in society?

*Treat everyone equal?! You're acting as if we're talking about a
racism issue! *
→ Its somewhat like that. Your under the impression that homosexuality is wrong because God says so.. What happens if people like you are even more blind to reality and follow the things like Stone your children to death if they curse you.. or kill homosexuals.. or kill people of other religions.. etc.

*we have far more homosexual today than we did pre-nineteenth century*
→ we also have far more men, women, children, cats, dogs, cows, etc. Things

You want enlightenment? Stop Spouting the BS, stop the name-calling, grow-up, treat others with respect, and stop with the lies.


 
theudas
Jun 29, 2011
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

Respect is something that is earned. Your discourse merits you none. In short I had reason to be short with you. However, you have admitted that you were at least “a bit offensive” which suggests that you have the potential to earn some.

“A lot of research on Catholics” → to what part do you refer? What pray tell is your faith. I only used the bible and history,

“Who said I was against Gays” → Well based on your claims of them being immoral, creeps, disgusting, etc. you could call it an educated guess.

“Has it never occurred to you that we simply don't accept that life-style and are informing our members that homosexuality is wrong?” → Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance. It is this mentality that can lead to things like racism, sexism, etc. Again, do you have any reason to call it negative? Or is this condemnation from blind ignorance?

“What about the notice that our populations are much greater than 100+ years ago which would cause more homosexuals? Did you really think I was stupid
enough to not look at that from a proportional evaluation?” → Again your being selective of your information, and there is no way you can possibly verify your statement. So I think your being Deceptive, and naieve in thinking I wouldn’t call you on it.


 
xyze
Jun 29, 2011
1 convinced
Rebuttal
The vast majority of studies show a large range of influences that can affect a persons sexuality. No single factor can be cited as the cause for sexual orientation. However, studies such as Twin Studies (List: http://www.tim-taylor.com/papers/twin_studies/studies.html) show that genetic factors are most likely to be the predominant cause.

The largest twin study was the Bailey & Pillard study which found a 52% concordance of homosexuality between monozygotic (Identical) twins. (When an identical twin is homosexual, 52% of the time the other twin is also homosexual.)

Similar studies also found that between dizygotic twins (twins that share no more genetic information than normal siblings, much less than monozygotic twins) the 52% figure drops significantly (22% in the Bailey & Pillard study), a figure much closer to that of the average occurrence in the rest of the population.

The important thing that these studies show is that there is a significant link between genetics and sexual orientation - The fact that twins with less shared genetic information (dizygotic twins) have a much lower percentage goes against many theories that highly regard social/cultural influences. In simple terms, they show that sexual orientation has little to do with environment and how a person is raised; Other wise there should be a strong link between homosexuality in dizygotic twins.

Some other large studies are the Heston & Shields study and the Kallmann study. The results of numerous small studies are also available. If you think that homosexuality is a choice then you are going against over 70 years of scientific research as well as common logic.

For religious persons only:
I see that many people who call homosexuality a choice are...deeply religious. If your god is so intolerable towards homosexuals and regards them as an "abomination" then why does he keep creating them? Does he create them just so he can send them to hell? The above studies show that your "god" is careless, malevolent, or non-existent.


 
xyze
Jun 30, 2011
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

Your ignorance is disgusting. I have posted several links to Twin Studies, I suggest you look at the study down by Bailey and Pillard. (Link in evidence section). It found that between monozygotic (identical) twins there was a concordance of 52%. (Where one twin was homosexual, 52% of the time the other was as well). This figure is SIGNIFICANTLY ABOVE the average. In dizygotic twins (twins that share 50% genetic information) this rate was lower, but still well above the average at 22%.

Please open your eyes before saying there is no evidence and no scientific studies. Twin studies on homosexuality began over 70 years ago, it is will known that genetic similarities result in similarities of sexual orientation. I have provided a list of such studies in the evidence section.

The percentage of the global population who are homosexual has remained constant over time. In the past, however, homosexuals could not be open about their sexuality due to people like you who would discriminate against them, segregate, and sometimes even kill them. By calling homosexuals "weirdos" you are showing your intolerance and likening yourself to such people who forced other to lie about their sexuality out of fear.

It has been shown that a certain percentage of homosexuals in a community is actually beneficial to the reproductive success of the community's population.

Homosexuality has been observed in over 1000 animal species. Homophobia has only been seen in one.

 
accipiter
Jul 04, 2011
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jaden Show

Wow. From where did your facts originate? How did you determine there was abuse, psycholgical disorders, attachment wounds?

 
marcopolo
Jul 04, 2011
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: james67 Show

Hey pimple boy. You should not be in a discussion about sex yet. Not til you have at least had one partner. Your hand doesnt count.
Come on fight back wimp.

 
accipiter
Jul 04, 2011
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jaden Show

In order for that to even come close to meeting the burden of proof here are a few things that would be required:
1. How many homosexuals did you speak with?
2. What was the context of the conversation?
3. What was the setting?
4. How many psychology classes did you take?
5. What was the specific focus of the class?
6. What were the credentials of the teacher?
7. What were the case studies?
8. What is the name of the websites you visited?
9. Who sponsored the website?
10. Spiritual Therapists? What is that?

You can see that several things are lacking from your statements to hold any credibility. You do have an agenda to promote your argument so clearly there is a bias. Before any of the statements you make to be taken seriously, you can see there are several qualifiers that need to be answered to delineate fact from opinion.


 
carnifax
Jul 05, 2011
1 convinced
Rebuttal
I really don't understand people who say being gay is a choice...for the most part anything you like or don't like is based entirely on genetics and past experiences. Furthermore who would choose to be gay? And most importantly why has no straight person proved being gay is a choice by having intercourse with someone their own gender while maintaining physical symptoms of sexual arousal?

 
carnifax
Jul 05, 2011
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

Your indication that homosexuality was less prevailent in the past is untrue. Homosexuality has always been around though may have been less detectable do to religious scrutiney and the blatent and ignorant hate of people (if you don't believe me feel free to research ancient greeco-roman society and learn that all of our valiant heros like Alexander the Great and Julius Caeser had male lovers). Furthermore, an honest increase in homosexuality might easily be explained scientifically in that humans are evolving to reduce our surplus population. And claiming that no biological condition can change sexuality is ridiculous as we only yet know what a fraction of our genetic material is responsible for.

 
summit
Jun 26, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: andreivey Show

I try really hard not to lose control, but this is getting just too... messed up. When did people get to be so secular? You could also argue why someone would choose to smoke, to choose to reject their health, but people still make those decisions!

 
delax
Jun 27, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
No , i don't think gay people choose to be attracted to the same sex. You cannot help falling in love with someone ; it just happens. Some people are brought up like that. They might have a few sisters and would like to do what they do and they just get too girly and they can't think of being with someone as girly as they are. Everyone wants to be loved and i think theres nothing wrong with being gay. I never thought i would say that but if you think about it ... how would you feel if you was gay? i think we all should respect everyone and treat them all equal.


 
lay455
Jun 27, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Gay people will go to hell because god didnt make adam and steve he made adam and eve just look at it if everybody was gay there wouldn't be anymore man kind cuz it takes a men and a women to make a baby a female and a female and male and a female

 
andreivey
Jun 27, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

Who are you to say that homosexuals or anyone who believes in homosexuality are corrupt? Believe it or not there are people out there who see things diffrently then your average, conformed American. The sexuality of a person is his/her own business. You wouldn't want to know if your parents are having sex, or if a chinese kid you see at the mall likes hip-hop because it's his business. And if that person wants to let the world know his/her real true self then you should look the other way and mind your own business.

 
shelby10
Jun 27, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Looking at it from another perspective teenage girls can sometimes love the wrong guy. People see it all the time where a young women or teenager loves a guy that cheats on her, abuses her, can not support a family, is an alcholoic, etc. Do you honestly think that a girl wants to love that man like that, no, but she does anyway because she can help who she loves. Same goes for homosexuals and bi-sexuals. You can argue that that girl is not in love with that guy, but bottom line is she is attracted to him and she can not help, exactly how some men can help but be attracted to another man and women to women.
I am not insinuating in anyway that being gay is bad.

 
shelby10
Jun 28, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

What exactly was I pulling, I don't understand how you could call me shallow when you are saying that gays are weirdos? I was just backing up my arguement of people cant help loveing who they love. I did not mean to offend people by that but it is true.

 
shelby10
Jun 28, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

Yes, but being gay is not hurting anyone, unlike the health risks you just mentioned. To bring up being secular is, I believe wrong. You can believe what you want and I do not care but King James I re-wrote the Bible. He very well could have added that being gay is wrong since it also states in the Bible that God indeed does love all of his inhabitants. There is speculation that King James was against gays. Again he could have added that part into the Bible.

 
shelby10
Jun 28, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

Your evidence invlolves the Bible which is not reliable, do to the Kings James the first version.

 
shelby10
Jun 28, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

You asked us to enlighten you. You are indeed very narrow minded. I understand why you don't want to accept homosexuals, however you frown upon them as if they were dirt on the bottom of your shoe. If you were religous like you sound you would not be judging them, at least not this harshly.

 
cotillion
Jun 28, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

Have you forgotten the rules of a debate? A debate is intended to be argued with facts, and not words like disgusting or twisted, which help the argument not at all. Stick with facts if you want to convince people. Also, you mention homosexuality as a sign of moral deterioration, with pointers to the fact that it was not as prevalent in earlier society. Neither were civil rights. Are they a sign of moral deterioration. Thus, your logic is flawed. Besides, maybe homosexuality is a species adaptation in response to the alarmingly overlarge human population. Because what we really need in a world facing rampant starvation, poverty, and environmental depredations are MORE people.

 
summit
Jun 28, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: shelby10 Show

So are you denying andreviey's claims? Does it not say in all other bibles that man shall not lay with a man? And who is speculating that King James was against gays? Is there a secret club or something that is devoted to uncovering James's discrimination, forgetting that HE IS NOT FOR GAYISM, I mean, he left that statement in there, didn't he?

 
summit
Jun 28, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: theudas Show

Finally, someone who can conjure a real response, though you were a bit loose with the profanity, which completely contradicts your disapprovals of my twisted, weirdos, creeps, etc. (you used etc. a lot). I admit, I was a bit offensive, and I shouldn't even try to rationalize with my overwhelming disgust, discomfort, etc. As for your claims, I can see you did a lot of research on Catholics, but I am sorry to say that I am not even of that faith. And who said I was against gays for something they did to me? This may be news for you but my religion doesn't do things out of revenge, inconsistency, etc. Has it never occurred to you that we simply don't accept that life-style and are informing our members that homosexuality is wrong? What about the notice that our populations are much greater than 100+ years ago which would cause more homosexuals? Did you really think I was stupid enough to not look at that from a proportional evaluation? You really should have thought about these points before you posted, but don't worry, everyone makes mistakes. You sounded so cool when you said, "grow up, boy".

 
shelby10
Jun 29, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

Where did I say that A teenage girl can't help loving the first cute boy she sees walking down the hall?

 
theudas
Jun 29, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

summit, Thank you for your honesty and recognizing your shortcomings in your discourse. This is a sign of maturity.

Seeing things from an objective point of view is hard, but I encourage you to continue trying. Being objective doesn’t mean sacrificing your own views, but rather recognizing a different way of viewing things.

Yes you an I have our own individual views, but so long as we can be respectful to each other in the way we talk, difference does not have to be negative. It might surprise you but we probably have some major similarities in our background..

I place value in logic and reason in many areas because I can be sure that I have an honest answer. For example: you claim that you *know* homosexuality is wrong because your faith says its wrong… 5 years ago I may have supported you in this stance because I was ignorant. I condemned things without understanding why, and that is dangerous. Take something like lying. We can look at it and point out where the damage happens when it is done in a malicious way.. however we can also see where positive things are done (Ex. “there are no jews here” – directed at a nazi solder).

In today’s day and age we have confirmed that homosexuality is natural. Natural does not imply moral or immoral. Moral judgments are based on the effect that the action has. In the case of homosexuality there is no current argument that I am aware of that implies something morally negative. And all the current evidence suggest that your sexual preference is not a choice. My challenge to you is to think long and hard and see if there is any reason to call it negative.

Regarding your religion. You are entitled to your beliefs, just as I am to mine, however seeing as you live in a diverse society there are certain things you can and cannot do. For example; if you believe that people of color are lesser beings and should be treated as such, wile I cannot change what you believe, you should not bring those beliefs to the public sphere, let alone try and take away right.

When your only reason for calling homosexuality negative is “because your religion says so”, fine, have those beliefs at home. Don’t impose them on others, and don’t claim to know. Unless you can prove your religion you cannot know, you only hold a subjective belief.

“We are the one church on earth that receives revelation from God. You can say what you want about that statement” → your entitled to this as a belief, but you must recognize it as a belief and you have no right to impose it on others, and for honesty’s sake, should recognize it as a belief no matter how strong it is.. You don’t know, you have strong faith. Faith is not a sign of evidence, for if we count it as such, all religions, all philosophy’s and all ideologies, though conflicting, are correct.

“I feel the deepest remorse for all of you who don't posess the same guidance.” → I don’t see why you should. I have a fulfilling life of working towards the greater good for mankind. In my actions I have been more moral than many of the characters in your bible.


 
xyze
Jun 30, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

According to you, people who defend the rights of homosexuals and think they should be treated like anyone else in society are "morally corrupt creeps".

You must have a terrible sense of morality if you need a book to tell you what is right and wrong. Morals change with society and they should be found via a path of reason and evidence; what is considered moral should be debated and justified. Following what the bible says is not "morals", even though they are conservative viewpoints. It is blind obedience. People need to decide for themselves based on evidence and reason what is moral or not.

If the bible is such a great, infallable source of morals then why does it condone slavery? (Leviticus 25:44-46, 1 Timothy 6:1-2)

Why does it condone the killing of adulterers? (Dueteronomy 22:22, Leviticus 20:10, Leviticus 21:9)

Why does it condone selling your daughters as sex slaves? (Exodus 21:7-11)

Why does it condone the killing of children? (Isaiah 13:15-18)

Why do you regard the above as immoral? The bible does not seperate acts like the above and homosexuality. The truth is that the bible is outdated, it was written by and for a 3000 year old society. If some laws like the above are fine to break, then why not homosexuality? Stop blindly folowing what you are told and decide for yourself what is right and wrong. If don't accept homosexuality because of the bible then you have no reason not to kill adulterers, women, children and sell your daughters as sex slaves. Sounds moral to me.

 
marcopolo
Jul 03, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

I think it must be pretty cool to be in a religion with such incredible higher moral ground. What is this religion? I would love to check it out to see what it has to say about a lot of other things too. Your high moral ground teaches people not to accept other people for what they are. If that is the case what course of action is your group taking to show them the error of their ways. Is salvation part of it?
The fact you have overwhelming disgust and discomfort leads me to believe there may be a few other issues at work here.
You admit you were "a bit offensive" is like the rest of admitting you are a "bit of of a dumbass".
Time to put up or shut up. Show us what your religion really teaches about homosexuality so we can see for ourselves. Just give us the name of the religion and I am more than happy to do my own research.

 
elliegirl
Jul 03, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
people are just born the way they are and then they are able to find who they love better

 
processing
Jul 03, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

I looked at everything you wrote but I don't see the part where you had evidence.

 
processing
Jul 03, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: lay455 Show

Based on the number of people in the world I think we can rule out everyone being homosexual

 
marcopolo
Jul 04, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

Hey everybody look at this our little church boy is sending me private messages. I guess the poor baby got his tiny feelings hurt. Take a look at his idea of an insult.

You are rediculously subjective, Marco. I'm sorry to tell you that you don't sound as cool or hip as you think when you incorporate profanity in your comments. But you would be confused with a drunken bum, that's a plus right? I mean... it's an improvement to your cruddy reputation.


Wow I am wounded now. Perfect spelling and grammar too. Kiss my big fat sweaty ass. Oops you better run off to your little church now and pray. Dumbass

 
carnifax
Jul 05, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: ambereyes Show

I really appreciate your level-headedness and tolerance and think your oppinion is very valid however wouldn't being attracted to both boys then girls simply indicate a static "bisexuality" instead of someone switching from gay to straight?

 
limelight
Jul 05, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
of course not. i know gay people. they say themselves that it's not a choice. but some people think they know whats right, even if the people going through it actually have experience dealing with it. and why would someone choose to be gay anyway? think about it.

 
theudas
Jul 05, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

Yes, as it turns out the evidence is overwhelmingly supportive of homosexuality being a positive, natural thing that a person does not choose. They may choose to act on their sexual preference, but they do not choose their sexual preference.

Where exactly are you getting you “Evidence”

And furthermore, I asked you to explain why we should see homosexuality as a negative.. No one has given me a remotely good argument for that

 
theudas
Jul 05, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

Yes, as it turns out the evidence is overwhelmingly supportive of homosexuality being a positive, natural thing that a person does not choose. They may choose to act on their sexual preference, but they do not choose their sexual preference.

Where exactly are you getting you “Evidence”

And furthermore, I asked you to explain why we should see homosexuality as a negative.. No one has given me a remotely good argument for that

 
emfrki
Jul 08, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I believe that everyone is born unique, that no matter what the case you are loved and cared about by one special person that will one day be you partner or soul mate. It does not matter if you are attracted to the opposite or the the same sex. I also believe that people should not hide who they are in the inside because when you are closed up and hiding away people will never know you. And no one will find you until you find yourself first.

 
munkey
Jan 25, 2012
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I am homosexual. And I don't understand why a lot of heterosexuals want to discuss this issue like we are some animal that is to be studied by science. We are people. If choosing to be gay is a choice, then I don't remember choosing. Is that not good enough evidence? I didn't choose to be gay (and why would I?), therefore being gay is not a choice. Now I've got the emotional gushy side out of the way, down to some cold hard arguments! There is no evidence for homosexuality being caused by either genetics OR the environment. There could be a 'gay gene', but then my absent father and close relationship with my mother could have caused my homosexuality. However, either way it is not a choice. For those of you arguing that homosexuality is not a choice, but accepting it is, I must stress how important self-acceptance is to any life. If I never had accepted myself I would never have become the person I am today, I would most probably hate myself, be in a relationship with a woman I don't actually love and resent my mother. Self-acceptance is a very important part to your own sexuality, even straight people have to accept their own sexuality, its just not as difficult. Talking of straight people, I'm going to use that age old argument and ask: when did you choose to be straight? In fact, these categories we put each other in only serve to cause more harm than good. By categorising people with a preference for the same sex under 'homosexuals' we are automatically making them the 'other'. It is just a way for the majority to say 'we are normal, you are not so stay away from us please'. If everyone just had sex with who they wanted, regardless of sex/gender (like the Greeks), the everyone would be a lot happier. Also, even if it was a choice, then why would that be a problem?

 
munkey
Jan 25, 2012
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: striker241 Show

I want to question of homosexuality not being a 'big issue until the more recent era'. First, I must point out that homosexual acts have been around for thousands of years, but because it was the norm, no one minded. There were none of these categories of 'homosexual', 'heterosexual' or 'bisexual' back then. People just had sex with who they wanted and no one cared. We would be the same, but the outlawing of sodomy caused everyone to believe that homosexuality was wrong, but sodomy is not mutually exclusive to homosexuals, and, in fact, some don't even do it. This lead to us putting people into clear and distinct categories of sexuality (which by its nature is not clear and distinct). These categories only serve to show that something is distinct from the norm, which is not good for anyone. It is because we have gone through this stage of illegality and legality with homosexual behaviour that it has become a more apparent issue. Not because people are more or less gay than before (because that has never been the case).
I do agree, there are those who do say they are 'gay' because they want to be different. But these people are not homosexual. They are experimental at the most. They want a lifestyle and not a sexuality.

 
cartesiandiver995
May 11, 2012
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

The reason is people display it more, and there are epigenetic markers not just genes that are controlled by environmental factor beyond the person's control, that determine homosexuality.

 
cartesiandiver995
May 11, 2012
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I would gladly be homosexual, and yet to my utter disappointment I am still very much attracted to girls.

 
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Absolutely not, they do not chose to be gay. Do we chose to be straight? Straight people have gay kids all the time. Don't you think if it was a choice they would choose to be straight so they didn't get insulted and harsh criticisim from judgmental people like summit on here. Please do not bring religion into this because there are plenty of gay people out there that are hypocrites to their religion.

 
Ryan Lillie
Jan 06, 2013
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: summit Show

I think Homosexuals are becoming more prominent merely because people are waking up and deciding their own path instead of following a bible which has their path written for them. That, and the fact that there are now laws that forbid them from being stoned and burned at the stake. There isn't more homosexuals, there is more of them that feel more accepted about it. Thing is, the bible says this.

Matthew 7:1
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged"

So this loud and angry post that is condemning people for their lifestyle, their choice in partner, their families, their sexuality, or a woman's right to chose.... is actually a perfect example of hypocricy. Just thought I'd go ahead and throw that out there.

 


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