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Early Mesopotamian gods vs ALL later religions.
Religion

joryrferrell
Jan 17, 2011
7 votes
6 debaters
1


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4
Why did the "true" gods of today's religions not see fit to make themselves known to early people fr


stof
Jan 19, 2011
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: carlodog Show

Well I have found out that the existence of god is not related to religion, and can be proven through logical thinking, and doing that I found out the following:
- God exists.
- There is only one god.
- There has always been one god.
Then I asked myself if there is a god which religion is his true religion, and always through logical thinking I found out the following:
- There is no true religion of god.
- Religions are man made.
- Religions serve purposes of men.
- All together religions cancel each others.
- No religion can prove anything that it claims.
- Religions are based on previous ones and on the environment in which they appeared. (this is strictly not a divine thing)
there many other points to discuss about this if you guys want so.


 
joryrferrell
Jan 17, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Why did the "true" gods of today's religions not see fit to make themselves known to early people from the Mesopotamian region? Wouldn't the Christian God, being a jealous god, have made himself known earlier than he did? If he's not really jealous, that still leaves the question of why he let man wonder around so long worshiping "false gods". Doesn't this provide reason to doubt all religions? How do we know that the earliest gods who were worshiped, aren't sitting "up there" seriously ticked off? Pissed that we are claiming each of their individual hard efforts to make us and the world we live in is actually the effort of one god? Pissed, that after explicitly putting their word forth, we strayed and worshiped false idols?

 
stof
Jan 18, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: joryrferrell Show

Interesting topic… BRAVO, this I really like, I raise my hat to you sir, finally some good debate topic, I didn’t see one of those for a while.
This is actually one of the biggest defaults of religions failing to prove anything, I’m sure lots of theist guys will come to defend religions here, when it happens I’ll take your side since I don’t believe in religion at all, but I do believe in god, so if none steps to debate against you I’ll do it.


 
joryrferrell
Jan 18, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
lol...stof...are you being sarcastic? Anyways, as for believing in God but not being religious, I can see how that
is plausible. Think about it like this. If there is only one true religion, it's not really religion....it's just reality.
You don't go around claiming to be a "REALIST" because you believe in reality. You know it exists and that's that.
There's no need to reaffirm it. You know it because you live it. So, some with religious beliefs simply feel that their religion is just as real as the world around them and can claim belief in god with out defining their belief as religion. Yet many still refer to their belief as religion. Which in my mind shows a separation between recognizing reality and trying to believe in something.

Anyways, back to the original debate. Where can I find info about Job appearing in Mesopotamia?

 
stof
Jan 19, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: joryrferrell Show

Not being sarcastic at all, not really (not this time anyway), you asked a very wise question, if god is god (as modern religions are promoting to) then why didn’t manifest himself earlier? I’d like to see some religion people answering that, and to add spice it up, since some of these guys will say he always manifested himself in different ways… well it is not a god thing to confuse us and it will contradict the religion itself that claims to be the true religion of god.

 
rodmcfeely
Jan 19, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Full disclosure, Im coming down from the non-religious, non-god believing side. Side note: I find it hard to believe that someone through logic alone concluded that there was a god, and even got some specifics about it. Thats been a hard fought, centuries long philosophical debate. And at the same time logically got to all religions are wrong. Interesting, but fodder for a different debate I suppose.

Here's the easy way out of this debate, from the religious side, its all part of god's plan which is beyond human logic.

A better question: Where has god been for the last, oh say, depending on your specific book, 2000 years? Rise in information technology = decline in God sightings. Anyone who does claim to have a conversation with god is considered crazy. So where has he been? Why not "make himself known" now?

 
stof
Jan 19, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: rodmcfeely Show

It’s not as hard as you can imagine, once you get to it everything seems to be logical, and please don’t imagine that I took sometime and started to analyze things philosophically, nope I just went through a very hard time, and that kinda pushed me to deny almost everything, the right path is not only to question everything but to strip everything from its own reality first, then to re-define it beyond the influence of anything we know like religion and science in the matter of the existence of god.
If there is no god then the concept of creation doesn’t exist, what are the other possibilities, evolution? The big bang theory? No, both theories are based on the concept of a previous object where did the first creature come from? Where did the first atom come from? No matter how science tries to prove the non existence of god it always fails because of the concept of relativity…
On the other hand religion is failing to prove the existence of god due to causality, if god exists then how come there are many different religion? Assuming that there is multiple gods how come that the whole universe is harmonious? In case of many gods would that be possible? How about clashes? How about the term divinity itself? If there is a god then there is only one that is certain. But how about religions? Each one claiming to be the true path to god, can one god have many different paths? Does he consider us all equals? Religion says yes but all of the religions together say no. if there is only one religion which one is it? The answer no religion is, religion is man made. If there was any then god is able to protect against fraud, it is supposed to be the word of god after all…
Not science no religion are able to prove or deny the existence of god, they are both manmade, how can anything made by an imperfect creature how can it prove or deny the existence of god, the answer is very simple god is proving his own existence, let’s take creation as an example, the fact is both science and religion are partially right: creation and evolution co-exist, that is the answer our existence is in fact explained by a small trigger called creation and a long process called evolution, it is simply like a game of chess when a player defines the result of the game in the first move, going through all the moves of the game, all considering both relativity and causality through the whole game, something like that can only be made by a superior creature “if I may use the word creature”, a divine creature indeed.



 
joryrferrell
Jan 19, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: stof Show

Time for my favorite argument. If the universe can't exist
without having been created, that means nothing can exist
without having a beginning. So, God must have had a
beginning...who created God since everything must have a creator?
An even higher god? Is god feeding us bullsh*t
adverts(sometimes)?If you say God has always existed then it is
equally possible for the universe to have sprung up from nothing.
Then again....maybe everything in the universe IS god (and in
effect we are the cells) and so we are sitting here arguing about
which came first....god or god....the universe or.....the
universe.......this sh*t is maddening......

 
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There was a justifiable reason God didn't make themself known until recently.


rodmcfeely
Jan 19, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: joryrferrell Show

Human history is but a blink of God's giant eye. He did some stuff, got up to use the john, and when he came back he found everyone worshiping crazy stuff. So he made himself known. This is known as the "God Had to Take a Leak" theory

 


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