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Church: Do they want your money? Or your faith?
Religion

thematic
Nov 12, 2010
16 votes
12 debaters
2


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11
Church is a business, when you get down to it all they want is your money.


men7al
Nov 12, 2010
2 convinced
Rebuttal
They want your money and faith into giving them that money,not really knowing if your going to get what you paid for,am I going to heaven for sure or just paying there lux lifestyle of rich and famous.



 
thematic
Nov 12, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I feel there is some to the religious side of a church. But driving down the street and seeing a church the size of a small town you think MONEY, lots of it. And where do they get it? Church goers. And how do they attract more church goers, with big flashy church, witch are made possible by the goers money, just like a business.

 
macaryl95
Nov 12, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
every church i went to asked for these offerings. but even tho its supposed to4 donations and whatnot, these 'preachers' were actually putting the money into their pockets. besides, ne body can stand behind a pedestal and preach.

 
gatorsf80
Nov 13, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
money. How can church spread the message without the money? There are costs associated with running a church. All churches and religious foundation ask for money/offerings... if not the government uses tax money to pay for it, in theocratic states. Money is needed to strengthen the faith. Faith is needed to bring more money to the church.

Try running a church without money, and see how far you can with only the faith.

 
teachme
Nov 13, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Churches are businesses, no question about it. What is disheartening is when you see priests preying upon the old and wealthy. I worked for an elderly, wealthy woman, as her private cook, while I was working my way through school. She was infatuated with her reverend, and he charmed her for all she was worth...right in front of her dying husband. Needless to say, he was over for dinner regularly.

By the time he was finished...he had his house added on, trips around the world, his sons' private education paid for, plus $25,000 a year towards their college education, stocks and bonds, an antique cadillac for the perish, a living will, and the list goes on...

He started dating a female reverend not long before she passed away. At her funeral, he seemed totally unaffected, and flew out that afternoon to visit a friend. When the estate was settled, we walked off with half the contents of the house.

One time we were visiting the church, and a woman rushed up to me in the parking lot looking bruised and panicked. She said she had been raped and needed help. I took her inside the parish immediately, and he wanted nothing to do with her. He passed her off as a street person who was probably acting and had put make-up on her face to make herself look like she had been abused. He acted like she was a con artist...he could not be bothered...he had to give all his attention to the elderly woman he was busy shamming himself!

 
teachme
Nov 14, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: hiruko Show

Yes, and if you buy this product, "faith," you will be freed from damnation. No guarantees, really, but if you don't believe, come to church, and give us money...you could run the risk of going to hell. (We don't really know that that exists either...but for all intents and purposes....hmmm.)

Seems like each "faith" tries to win the other out...somehow convinced that they have the real, the 'authentic,' the tried and true product...and all the others pale in comparision. If they all really cared about your 'soul,' they would allow for people to believe in what they want to believe in, or not believe in, without forcing their beliefs down your throat. They wouldn't perpetuate guilt and fear in people...nor would they nurture false pretense in people...where one person of faith is lauding over another of a different kind of faith, which can lead to wars.

I could go on...but churches are businesses...and if they took all the gold in the Vatican, melted it down and spent it on ways that would truly help people in need (practiced what they preached), I would then start believing that they were more concerned about your soul (and their own souls). Worrying about your soul in the afterlife, when there's no proof that there even is one...is a good tactic if you want to scare your believers into following your every word and filling that basket...but it doesn't do a whole lot for your poor soul, and the souls of others, in the here and now.

 
teachme
Nov 14, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: tad1 Show

Oh, I could give you plenty more examples, don't you worry...but you may want to read my rebuttal to Hiruko's argument.

 
sumalini
Nov 16, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
church is a holy place where only faith and the worship should exist but the people are making it a place of business. It is the place where we find the presence of god. But the present people are making it a place of earning money. Even the preist does the same thing.

 
johnnyokjohnny
Mar 09, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: shockwave Show

you should visit the vatican. i was rendered speechless by the vast wealth and power the catholic church have on show (the parts you are allowed to see). each enormous room after another is stuffed with priceless art, precious metals, jewels and ancient artifacts. but what really knocked me was when we were brought into what were once the popes private chambers and told that Raphael had painted the frescoes on the walls and ceilings. many of the greatest artists that ever lived were commissioned to work in the vatican. Michaelangelo and Da Vinci spent many years in the vatican. its a place so far removed from my idea of a church founded on a vow of poverty and chastity. its all an astonishing lie.

 
wildkatt916
Jun 11, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I worked in a church and even tho they were getting regular money in the bills were never paid. What was sad was utility employees were coming into the daycare part of the church always looking for the preacher or his wife and threatening to turn the lights or gas off no matter the weather. We had many children in the daycare and it was upsetting to see that they were always in jeopardy of being without ac in the summer or heat in the winter. And it was even more upsetting to find out that they were almost daily eating out at expensive restaurants. How does any of that makes sense?

 
wildkatt916
Jun 11, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
There is also a few churches here in town (the big flashy ones) that will literally refuse to allow anyone coming to the church and being involved with them unless they are willing to give a certain amount of many. It is not just 1 or 2 churches doing this in this country or the world there are examples of them everywhere you go

 
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5
Church is only interested in my faith and growing and learning in it.


tad1
Nov 12, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: thematic Show

The big question is, what do they do with their money? And is acquiring money their motive in opening a church? The answers to these questions will determine if churches are 'just like a business.'
In my own experience some churches, but not all churches are greedy and money oriented. But there are pure churches that adhere strictly to the teachings of the Bible, these churches are not 'just like a business'. They are good for individuals, families, communities, and societies, if their influence can go that far.

 
shockwave
Nov 12, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
church? money???
i haven't seen a church which is business oriented and wants a pence more than the little donations necessary for it's upkeep.

 
tad1
Nov 13, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: macaryl95 Show

Its no secret that preachers get paid, in fact its commanded by the Bible. That salary is usually decided by the congregation, the people donating their money. Its not true that any one can stand behind a pedestal and preach. The pastors responsibility is far greater than just an hour of preaching Sunday morning.

 
tad1
Nov 13, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: men7al Show

Most churches don't teach that a person can buy their way into heaven, any church teaching that are heretics. Any person who thinks that is why a Christian gives a tithe, is horribly mistaken. And should quit judging on mere appearances and presuppositions, but rather on education and fact. Lastly, not all preachers are famous and live luxurious life styles. Most are honest, modest, and sincere.

 
tad1
Nov 14, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: teachme Show

Your logic is faulty, two dishonest church leaders does not = that Churches are business. This we call a Hasty Generalization.

 
hiruko
Nov 14, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
The "one or the other" nature of this debate is silly. Just because a church is interested in your pocket book doesn't mean it's not also interested in your soul.

Churches are like businesses. In exchange for donations the good ones provided the laity with services like community, support, comfort, religious education, and (the possibility of) spiritual salvation. In other words, churches need money to spread faith, and they need faith to earn money.

And like any earnest businessman, a good church not only wants to sell you its product, it wants the product, faith, to make a positive difference in your life. It's not a either/or dynamic.

 
tad1
Nov 15, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: teachme Show

The problem with all of this is that faith is not a 'product' that can be purchased. There are some extremely impoverished people who have a great amount faith. I never received an ounce of faith by placing my money in a basket. Not to mention I have never attended a church or listened to a sermon where the preacher said "Faith for sell, costs 10%". That would be completely foolish if any person would preach such a sermon, because the Bible condemns such a message. A Church by classical and Biblical definition is a gathering of Christians who have the same 'faith', included in that 'faith' is complete trust in the Bible. So the classical Church functions by the precepts laid out in the Bible. So if such a message was preached from a 'church'. I would argue that, that 'church' is not a true Church. So the question arises what church are we all talking about? I am arguing for the Biblical Church.

Response to your second paragraph. There may be different denominations that fall under the title Christian and there is nothing inherently wrong with that. The Bible is not clear on some doctrines, people worship different, etc. One thing that they all agree on is the Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour of mankind and faith in Jesus cannot be bought. As long as a denomination does not differ on clear biblical doctrine, then there is no reason why a person should not choose that denomination. This picture that you have painted about churches battling over attendees is false. However, I would try to prevent a person from attending a false church that has deviated from the clear Biblical doctrines. And by doing so I am showing concern for that persons soul. Only one gospel saves, and that is the gospel of Jesus as portrayed in the Bible. If a person believes this and at the same time encourages a person to believe a different gospel is equivalent to murder. It would be like me having tea with a person knowing full well that their cup is full of arsenic and not warning them about it. As far as people causing war over religion is fullish. It would be fullish for people to war over faith, but it is also fullish for people to believe that there has ever been a war over faith. Wars are fulled by greed and power, not the concern for another's soul.

As far as the Roman Catholic church goes, it is clear that they have deviated from clear biblical doctrine. It is also clear that they sell the hope of salvation. Recognize this famous slogan uttered by the Roman Catholic preacher Johann Tetzel "As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory springs!" (purgatory is not even a biblical doctrine). This clearly is a business operation. I agree with practically every word you say, because your words do not describe the image of the biblical Church or message.



 
tad1
Nov 16, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: sumalini Show

The Bible is clear in the fact that ministers should get paid (modestly), for the great responsibility involved in pastoring God's people. The Bible is also clear that giving is a form of worship and an expression of ones faith. Do you agree with all of this?

 
carter2dabone
Jun 02, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Preachers get paid. It is their job to preach. Many preachers probably do like their money a little too much. However, the question isn't does the preacher want your money, its does the church. And the answer is no. Most churchs are all the same. Yes, people give an offering on Sunday, however this offering helps pay the bills for the church. Without an offering the church would have no source of income, therefor people wouldn't have an air conditioned, lighted place to preach. Money isn't distributed to people in the church, it is distributed FOR people in the church.

- Also, if you have never been to church, then this isn't something you should argue on, because you really have no clue what goes on inside the walls of a place you've never been.