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Would you die for your country?
Society

akulakhan
Jul 28, 2009
26 votes
21 debaters
18
3
1
1
1
1
1
1
1


+ Add Argument

10
yes


blackkodiak
Jul 29, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
I'm not sure if it's fair to ask this question as broadly and as plainly as it is asked.

I mean, one could say that every last person in the armed forces is willing to "die for their country", even if the likelihood of that happening is debatable. I am not in the armed forces.

My willingness to die for my country would have to be highly situationally specific. There are causes and outcomes that I believe are worth my life, and causes that I believe are not. I would also extend that there are many causes and outcomes worth my life that have no effect on my country...a little like saying, "would you die to cure cancer?" or some other such hypothetical.

I'm not in as much of a hurry to die for my country as others, but I'm willing to identify that there are things out there that are more important than me.

 
thevenerablerob
Jul 29, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
I think, as DKTurner put it, I'd fight for what is right and thus against what is wrong possibly faster than I would 'for my country'. However, I would be much more pleased if I could fight with my flag waving proudly behind me. If it were behind me, I would 'die for my country' and, ultimately, for my family, friends and what is right. But if my country fights for the wrong reasons, similar to the German Army in WWII, it would grieve me, but I would fight for another country.

As stated, propagandic hype puts a spin on who is right and wrong. In WWII, the Allies did some things that they later regretted. Frankly, it's too bad, but the greater evil would have to have been Hitler and the Nazi Party. I'd fight for Canada in a second if a situation where my homeland is threatened arose, or if a similar evil tyrant rose up in a similar situation, against us.

If the country takes a wrong turn, I may fight in a rebellion 'for my country', its old beliefs, morals and rights.

I care for the country and the people in it, so I would support it as long as it retains the apparent 'right'. If it doesn't, I would fight to make it right again, and this could be said that that's fighting for the country, as well - it's greater good.

 
thoughtprocess
Jul 29, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Like the others are saying, it would depend on the situation. It would take a very specific situation to get me to die for a cause. I certainly wouldn't do it for "my country". The word country reminds me of government and I pretty much hate the f**king government. I just think about all the soldiers that have been lied into wars by my government and it makes me sick. It would take a miracle for me to fight with a machine like that.

 
frankiej4189
Jul 29, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: accipiter Show

Show some respect. Millions of men and women have died fighting for their country, they didn't feel it was so "ridiculous".

 
wwwdontpushmenet
Jul 29, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
of course i would if it meant to keep my children and my childrens children and so on safe! i would definatly without a doubt in my mind!

 
blackkodiak
Jul 29, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: dkturner Show

That's a much better way of putting it than I did.

 
frankiej4189
Jul 29, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: accipiter Show

You become disrespectful when you presume to know the intentions of the people who fought and died while in uniform, more so when you, with your presumptions, call it ridiculous.

 
thevenerablerob
Jul 30, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: andre2552 Show

What wars are you referring to? :P I'd like to know. I can think of a couple, perhaps, but in many wars, the soldiers fight and die willingly with little or no delusions as to the situation.

Which wars should a country have maintained a neutrality when it actually deemed necessary to invade? I dearly hope you're not referring to either World War, or even the War in Afghanistan.



 
frankiej4189
Jul 31, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: accipiter Show

Well for myself, and i'd imagine most other people, the most important principle in my life is that family is the most important thing in the world and for you to be willing to sacrifice (allegedly) your family's lives simply to fullfill your desire to "stick to your guns" seems like one of the most selfish things i can imagine.

I guess you'd be right, letting your family die just so you can say to yourself "I stuck by what i believed in" is something so selfish and so brutal that it must be the most ultimate sacrifice. While a person dying for a loved one or a total stranger carries a sense of nobility that goes along with it, your "sacrifice" is just a pathetic attempt to feel good about yourself and it borders on sociopathical insanity IMO.

I'm very curious to know atleast SOME of the principles you'd be willing to let your family die for. If you wouldn't mind sharing a few, seeing as how i've never heard anyone say what you have.

 
jkgamz
Aug 01, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
The government and land and states and such are not a worthy price for anyone's life. However, to die for your country is more than that. When a soldier fights, he doesn't fight for the cause. Of course some do, but not most. They fight for the man next to them, each man fallen a son, a grandson, a brother, a father, a friend. If I had the opportunity to give my life for just one of them I would do it in a heartbeat. America isn't a government or a "patch of dirt". America is the soldiers, men and women, who fight to protect what they have come to love: the people of the United States of America.

 
processing
Aug 01, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: accipiter Show

You're right that is a sick and twisted scenario.I would have to sacrifice my family in that case. There is no way I could torture and kill a child.
So in this case the ultimate sacrifice for principles would be to let my family die for my principles.

 
thevenerablerob
Aug 01, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: andre2552 Show

At the time of World War I, Australia was a distinct part of the Commonwealth. Its Government was not really independant and it relied on Great Britain for trade etcetera. As one of the colonies, it, as well as any other, was relied upon to come to aid the home country if such problems arose. In return, England would protect Australia and perform many services for the commonwelath country. Australians, being patriotic and deeming that the Kaizer was evil, fought for their motherland and their country.

In WWII, Japan controlled most of the Pacific. Japan would have invaded Australia no matter what, simply because it was in the way and a Commonwealth nation. As it was, it touched the shores of Australia before the United States managed to halt japanese progress.



 
whateverx245
Aug 06, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
yes, if any country decides to declare war on America, and attacks us, I will fight to defend my country, and if i die, so be it. I like to think that I am patriotic.

 
whateverx245
Aug 13, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: akulakhan Show

whatever american may be, it is the best country to live in. You have a chance to become a better person, to rise in society. People from China and India come here and become doctors, lawyers, highly successful people due to hard work and an education. They couldn't do that in their society. America is the most free country to live in. You have a chance even if you are not white, as long as you work hard, conform, and have an education, the sky is the limit. literally. In India, only Indians or Indian decent will have a chance. English, at heart are racist. French? you need to have all french grandparents and parents in order to become a citizen. i doubt they are pro-others. China? I like my freedom. Japan? same as france. No other country is like America. America is great if you are willing to work hard, conform, and get an education. It is not the same elsewhere. If this is not worth protecting, what is? Your money? It'll be worthless if the enemy wins, and you will be opressed. The battle my great great great grandfather fought in the revolutionary war would have been for nothing. He did to give freedom for all, to give all an opportunity. These ideals still are the basis for american society. These ideals are still true, and if i have to fight to keep these ideals, and i died, so be it. If i died to ensure that the freedom my great great great grandfather died for remains true, so be it. It is a cause worth dying for.

 
shaykh
Aug 16, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: hydar Show

Your country = your identity, your race, your history, how you were brought about on this planet, how your ancestors gave up their lives for your freedom.
Dying for your country might even make you live forever.
That is how heroes are born, and are remembered until man walks this earth.
Oh, and is not your family a part of your country ?




 
melonchollylife
Oct 01, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I wouldn't die for my COUNTRY, I would die for my country's PEOPLE though. Even though I don't even particularly like the average US person. Patriotism is just (in my opinion) BS, but to use my life for a real purpose - to save someone else's - then that would have real value.
Even if it took generations, the product they made, weather it be a child that becomes an influential and important world leader, or even a great-great-grandchild that finds a cure to a disease, than it would be infinitely worth it.
Life is a temporary thing. If my death were to help the future in any way, then I would gladly die.

 
+ Add Argument

16
no


accipiter
Jul 28, 2009
6 convinced
Rebuttal
Die for a piece of dirt? Don't be ridiculous. If you were talking about people of personal interest to me is a different question.
I have no patriotism in me at all. It's over hyped crap.

 
accipiter
Jul 29, 2009
4 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: frankiej4189 Show

That is the beauty of freedom of choice. The simple fact that they made the choice they made really has nothing to do with me. They did what they did for their own reasons. Don't you think some soldiers went to war for the glory or the fame or whatever other reasons they had? Somehow dying with a uniform on doesn't make it a better decision.
The standard line from the government is that they died for their country or the cause. That doesn't make it true. Most government decisions to get involved in a war are ridiculous and have nothing to do with my life.

 
dkturner
Jul 28, 2009
3 convinced
Rebuttal
There's a difference between patriotism and jingoism. The former is pride in one's country, and is generally a good thing (otherwise you're probably living in the wrong country). Jingoism, on the other hand, is "my country, right or wrong". That's just stupid. Wrong is wrong. I'd have fought against Hitler in WW2, but the point is that it would be *against* Hitler rather than *for* Britain. I would die in service to my principles, but not in service to my country. Since the two generally go hand in hand, it's an easy but horrific mistake to make.

 
accipiter
Jul 29, 2009
2 convinced
Rebuttal
If there is an expectation for me to risk my life, it would only happen for something I thought was important.

 
accipiter
Jul 30, 2009
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: frankiej4189 Show

While I have no intention of discussing my personal principles in public and what they happen to be is irrelevant to the discussion. Principles are what you hold most precious in your life and are very personal.
It has been said in here and echoed by others that laying down your life is the ultimate sacrifice but judging by your reaction to the statement that you could sacrifice your family speaks volumes to the power of the statement.
People seem to speak rather casually about laying down their lives in defense of what they believe but when it comes to sacrificing your family; it takes the conversation to a new level. This is a decision you live with after the deed. So between the two, which is the Ultimate Sacrifice?


 
accipiter
Jul 30, 2009
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: frankiej4189 Show

How is it any more disrespectful for me to presume the intentions of those who fought and died in uniform than it is for you to also make a presumption on the opposite side? Since neither of us have first hand experience our assumptions are equally valid.
My assumptions are based on the huge array of opinions within any group of people and yet you want to apply the same virtues to them all. Dying for patriotism is a ridiculous concept. If you feel the need to die for something, it should be for something real.


 
accipiter
Jul 31, 2009
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: frankiej4189 Show

People risk their own lives on a daily basis but balk at allowing their loved ones to engage in the same behavior. Simply by engaging in such behavior is by definition, diminishing the importance of your own life.
Your principles are never truly tested in real life until the ultimate sacrifice is made. Judging by your response and that of other people this has really struck a nerve; and so it should. You are proving that the ultimate sacrifice is not giving your own life but that of your family. It is shocking and disgusting to even imagine that anyone would do it. Sociopathic insanity is an interesting term you used to attack without even hearing the scenario. Your revulsion was both expected and understood. If you were not repulsed by this notion then there would truly be a problem.
The following scenario is sick and twisted but it does put the example before you and I would love to hear your honest response.
“Your family is about to be killed. The ONLY WAY you can prevent their deaths is to torture and kill a child that you have never met and do not know.”
Would you torture and kill that child? (Taking your own life is not an option)
I invite everyone who is truly repulsed by this notion to think about and answer the question.


 
jonjax71
Jul 29, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Back in the late 1960s when I was a revolutionary and radical activitist I was willing to die for a cause, now although I have matured beyond the perspective of thinking a molotov cocktail or shooting of an official of the oppostion is the way to make change, I am still willing to die for a cause, a belief-however that cause and belief is a lot of differetn now then it used to be. I will not lay my life down for a country or nation, here, there or anwyhere, yet I would not hesitate to fight to the death protecting my family, my ideals, my property, civil rights and for the greater good of humanity

 
akulakhan
Jul 29, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Everyone wants something good to die for, as opposed to dying for nothing. However, I am strongly opposed to nationalism. I do not think that one should hope for their own country to prosper, but instead hope that all people from any division, whether it be land or whatever, would prosper simultaneously. I definetly wouldn't die for an isolated group, that would then benefit them only.


 
teachme
Aug 01, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: frankiej4189 Show

It's true, Frankie...but Accipiter has the right to his feelings and opinions too...regardless of the choices others have made.

 
akulakhan
Jul 29, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Keep in mind that the strongest form of nationalism to date was the Nazi party.

 
marcopolo
Jul 29, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I wouldnt even fight for the my country let alone die for it. Politicians have their own power grab going on and it doesnt have anything to do with right or wrong or justice.
My battles are my own. Not some flag.

 
andre2552
Jul 30, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: frankiej4189 Show

This is often a lie. Where the country could have just stayed neutral in wars their country had nothing to do with, many of them chose to join in. Many of those millions died for the idiocy of their government.

 
slasheron
Jul 30, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I would not die for my country(Philippines) at thsi current state. Our country as of now looks like it is dead right now. Unless there's a reason to die for it in this current time I am not willing to die for my country.

 
akulakhan
Jul 30, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I took last years data in America for poverty rates per capita and military enrollment rates per capita, plotted them, and got an r value of .6, which is respectfully correlated. This means that poor people, whom don't own land, are dying for rich people, whom do own the land.

I wouldn't exactly call that dying for ones country.

 
andre2552
Jul 31, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: thevenerablerob Show

For one thing, Australia in both World Wars. We were under no direct threat in WWI, and in WWII, we were under threat only because we participated in the war. We went to war in WWI as a slave to Britain. Was there a reason to let our citizens die? For freedoms that were under threat from...who? No, there was none.
The US, though perhaps as a superpower they should've helped out anyway, acted well keeping neutral, and wouldn't have gone to war unless they were attacked, which is reasonable, unlike Australia's reaction. In Vietnam, Australia and USA acted wrongly, many would not disagree. There are many examples.

 
mrphilosophy
Aug 02, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
i choose to live for my country

 
akulakhan
Aug 07, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: whateverx245 Show

May I ask why you would fight for your country?

 
hydar
Aug 15, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
die for your country this is the most insane thing ive heard to die for your family that is anather when i hear on the t.v that anather british troop has died i think to my self that man or woman has just given up his life so that many more innocent iraqi or afgahn civilion can die

 
akulakhan
Aug 17, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: shaykh Show

Didnt that one guy, (oh what's his face), say something once about defining someone not by their tan, or something similar to it, or where they come from, but instead by "the context of their character."?

Oh yeah, his name was MARTIN LUTHER KING JUNIOR; the greatest American martyr to grace the world with his presence.

Please note that my sarcasm is not intended to belittle the message of MLK Jr., for I've lived my life by such wise words as his.

 
praachijatar
Mar 27, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
In a time like today, no. Simply because it's not worth it.
Today, people are killing eachother everyday. Soldiers are dying for the country at war everyday. Does anybody benefit? Does anybody even care? It's a viscious circle. Why die for a country where nobody cares. Whichever country it may be, the patriotism that we used to see in the previous centuries has definitely dminished, if not faded away. It may be an act of heroism, but the entire country is way to busy in their daily life, to realize that you just died for them.

 


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