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Gay rights
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feefee123
Mar 23, 2009
18 votes
12 debaters
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+ Add Argument

3
Against Gay rights


helpme
Mar 25, 2009
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: verya Show

There is no gay gene. Please site your articles.

 
jonjax71
Mar 23, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: unlabled00 Show

You need to learn US history Unlabeled, you stated and I quote "The U.S. government has always had a forward progression of rights for its citizens. Womens' rights, African-Americans' rights"

The indigenous people whom the US settlers stole the land from, in the KKKONstitution did not recognize them at all and they could not vote nor have representation and were imprisoned on "reservations", women could not vote, my ancestors were considered a whole human, they were only 3/5ths of a white man. It took over hundred years for woemn to be allowed to vote and only after protest, my ancestors were treated like livestock, couldn't drink from a public water fountain, even a GI attired in uniform wouldn't get served at a restaurant in the South while German POWs being transported to a prison could, Japanese-Americans had their farmlands taken away from them after Pearl Harbor without compensation and imprisoned, Kent State students murdered by National Guardsmen simply because they were protesting the Nam conflict, COINTELPRO, the murders of Panthers, J Edgar allowing the mob to flourish with impunity and refusing to protect US citizens because they were dark-skinned which is why Malcolm X was taken to the US to World Court before he was assinated, I could go on and on and on

yup, you're right the US has ALWAYS had a forward progression of rights for its citizens, its white protestant citizenry. You must live in a fantasy Leave it to Beaver, Father Knows Best world of the vanilla suburbs

 
blackkodiak
Mar 26, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: verya Show

I truly believe that homosexuality is not a choice, but something found regularly in nature.

However, your statements don't live up to your citations and you're guilty of drawing inferences from inconclusive scientific work and passing them as fact.

Leave science to the scientists. Stick to rhetoric. You're better at that.

 
frankiej4189
Mar 26, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: verya Show

Simply because something is found in nature doesnt mean there is a gene for it. Please provide conclusive scientific evidence that proves there is a homosexual gene before you claim there to be one.

 
hottubwille
Mar 23, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
So what's wrong with 8 wives?

 
jonjax71
Mar 24, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: frankiej4189 Show

I was challenging Unlabeled declaration that the USA has ALWAYS been a progressive minded nation when it came to equal rights, prove me wrong, I can accept being in error. Remember he said AWAYS has been progressive

 
jonjax71
Mar 24, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: unlabled00 Show

You never mentioned the word despite, you never clarified your stance or explained it, you made the absolute statement that the USA ALWAYS was progressive thinking when it came to equality. i challenge you to prove ti and point out where you said despite and what you actual meant in your original post, you're waffling now, squeeming out of your statement

 
denverdannydee
Mar 24, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
You lose the right for equality when you choose to be homosexual, male or female because it is a unatural choice and goes against nature and God because he made a male and a female in order to continue mankind

 
jonjax71
Mar 24, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: unlabled00 Show

No need to be such a brute over the issue, I'm not "squeeming out" of my statement so shove your accusations back up your ass where they came from; I don't come on this site to take your crap.

When anyone in this forum including me makes an erroneous absolute statement like you did, then you must withstand the blowback and ardent responses you are guaranteed to get, like is said in the Godfather, it's not personal-it's business !!
I'll admit I got and will get angry when misleading statements about the benevolance of the USA when it comes to racism, facism and imperialism they are known for especially when someone wants to lighten the load of slavery by attempting to say it was way back in the day, salvery was a part of the landscape of USA for over 400 years and despite its abolishment still has serious repurcussions and leftover damage in 2009 and will beyond. As a retired freedom fighter, I will not let my efforts be forgotten nor diminshed-not me personally but the sum total of the civil rights struggle of the 1960s

I was born and have resided in the USA all my life but this is not my country, you never will see me refer to the US as my country, I just live here this ain't mine. In a little over 3 years when my wife and I both get to 62 years of age and get our S S checks we are out of here. We have a home in Jahmaica awaiting our arrival

I now know that you are Canadian, I love Toronto and Vancouver-having spent a lot of time in both of those cities since the 1970s, I like Canada almost moved there in 1969 to avoid being drafted for the Nam conflict. I would like to see the US move towards a Canadian model in some social aspects. Being that you're not a United Statesian, you are American, I will give you a mulligan on your original statement.

 
blackkodiak
Mar 26, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: verya Show

"Gay gene"? Huh?

Citation needed.

 
helpme
May 23, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: littleminx Show

No gay gene. Animals are not gay, they are animals with no moral bent.

 
thoughtcriminal
May 23, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: thoughtprocess Show

No, the irony is that when Utah wanted statehood, they had to accept the legal negation of many existing marriages.

 
thoughtcriminal
May 23, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: verya Show

For what it's worth, it's probably not a gene, at least not a single one and not even necessarily in the gay person. There's evidence that the prenatal environment is what predisposes someone to homosexuality, which is to say that if it's someone's gene, it's the mother's.

 
+ Add Argument

15
For gay rights


unlabled00
Mar 23, 2009
4 convinced
Rebuttal
The U.S. government has always had a forward progression of rights for its citizens. Womens' rights, African-Americans' rights... the next logical step in the way the country has been run thus far is the inclusion of homosexual rights.

 
unlabled00
Mar 25, 2009
4 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: denverdannydee Show

Can you also lose the right for equality when you prove yourself an ignorant putz?

 
verya
Mar 23, 2009
3 convinced
Rebuttal
Who is the government to stop two people in love from getting married? It's incredibly ridiculous, the way they are acting. Marriage is a simple human right, and everyone should be entitled to it.

Everyone ought to be entitled to their own lifestyle, so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others - and homosexuality certainly does not. It doesn't hurt anyone, it doesn't take away anything from anyone - what's the excuse?

 
unlabled00
Mar 24, 2009
3 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jonjax71 Show

I didn't say that the good ol' American spirit has been fueling a never ending quest for equality.

I'm saying that DESPITE the push that so much of its citizenry gives, the U.S. HAS had a forward progression of rights for its citizens. DESPITE your countries ignorant and, apparently white protestant, nature it HAS acquired the freedoms you enjoy. It HAS done so and will continue to, with the next issue seeming to be gay rights.

Look at the history lecture you just gave. The U.S. government gave way for Black and women's rights to exist and it will eventually do so with homosexual rights as well.

 
verya
Mar 24, 2009
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: denverdannydee Show

Fundamentalist Christianity may be YOUR religion, but don't think just because you are means everyone should be. Everyone has a right to their own way of life, so long as it doesn't impose on the rights of others.

You may not be homosexual, but you degrade yourself when you refuse to at least respect them and their basic human rights of equality.

You say it is unnatural, but scientists recently have isolated a 'gay gene' which would prove that homosexuality is in your DNA... If you so request, I can cite my articles for you. If something is in your DNA, it's an evolved trait - like blue eyes or black hair. You can't get more natural than DNA... not to mention this trait for homosexuality has evolved in some dolphins and waterfowl as well.

Believe me, the human race isn't going to die out because of homosexuality. It's been around for thousands of years, and we have more people on this planet than ever before. To say that homosexuality ruins the continuing of mankind is rubbish.

Also, you seem to think being gay is a CHOICE. I beg to differ - I myself am not gay, but I have seen a few of my friends go through it. It's something you discover in your adolescence, something one has to come to grips with. Some people who discover it are even horrified with themselves at first - obviously, they didn't CHOOSE to be this way. I get so infuriated with people who think it's a choice, because I know so well that IT IS NOT.

You seem to be living in a very closed-minded setting over in Denver... I don't know how it came about but it would benefit you most handsomely to open up and think.

 
verya
Mar 25, 2009
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: helpme Show

Well, there's this site, which made me laugh out loud but is very true (I don't expect you to watch anything, just read it).

http://www.godhateshomophobes.com/video-homosexual-dolphins.php


And this one, more serious but still valid.

http://www.livescience.com/animals/061116_homosexual_animals.html

Since animals have evolved into homosexuality, we can conclude that:

1. Even though scientists haven't isolated the specific gene (the tests have been done but the results won't start to come until 2010 or later), it is there because it has evolved in other creatures. Many of these animals are not considered sentient enough to make the CHOICE to engage in this behavior with someone of the same sex.

2. Of course we can note some differences: some animals of these species gain more sexual pleasure from being with their same sex, rather than with the other. The basics of that are true for humans, but we are of course capable of more dynamic emotions - love. Homosexual people can fall in love with one another and instead of just getting pleasure, truly decide to spend the rest of their lives together.

How much more natural can you get?

While researching, I also found that the gene for this is most likely among a difficult group of genes called 'behavioral genes.' They influence behavior, such as how quick one is to anger, how emotional one gets when faced with hardship, and yes, sexual preference. Notice I say INFLUENCE: the truth is, you can go to therapy to change ANY behavior that one of these genes influences. But, it's still not a choice in the first place. You can CHOOSE to love yourself for who you are, or you can run from it and go to someone to help you change the way you are, but that goes for anything from your hair color to your temper to your emotions. It doesn't mean, in any way, that homosexuality is wrong.

 
verya
Mar 23, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: hottubwille Show

Some people think you should only be married to one person at a time... actually, I tend to agree. Less jealousy that way.

 
unlabled00
Mar 24, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jonjax71 Show

No need to be such a brute over the issue, I'm not "squeeming out" of my statement so shove your accusations back up your ass where they came from; I don't come on this site to take your crap.

I never claimed that in my original post I said despite, what I was trying to get across was that your government HAS made said changes yes? They HAVE had a forward progression, yes? Then you came storming in with your history lesson which essentially proved that the YES, the US has acquired said rights over time.

Was "always" the correct phrasing for the sentence? Maybe not, but if you had to chart U.S. citizen's rights on a spectrum of "no one -- everyone" over time I'd assume you'd notice an overall FORWARD progression, correct? I've never seen your government rescind a woman's right to vote or a black man's right to own land... as far as I can tell when the government rescinds rights EVERYONE's rights are rescinded (yes, even the white protestants you seem to despise) in such actions at the Patriot Act. I'll allow, however, that I don't exactly care as much as Americans do when it comes to your history, since its not part of general school curriculum anywhere outside of your country.

 
littleminx
Mar 25, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: denverdannydee Show

Then why is there such a thing as a gay gene....and why does it occur in nature as well?????



 
verya
Mar 25, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
ba-dum BUM.

Priceless, unlabeled, priceless.

 
verya
Mar 26, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: blackkodiak Show

The conclusion I drew seemed reasonable to me... what exactly was wrong with it? The articles proved that homosexuality is found in nature, which means there is a gene... right?

I argue with homophobics all the time, on other sites too, and eventually they all ask me to 'prove it's natural.' I decided to get the citing over with early this time.

Thanks for the advice.

 
thoughtcriminal
May 23, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: denverdannydee Show

I'm sure people have pointed out that homosexuality exists in nature, even in other species. Besides, being natural and being moral are not related. It's natural to kill or be killed, to rape, to have unwanted children, to die of curable diseases, and so on. Fuck nature.

 
thoughtprocess
Mar 23, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Yeah it's really just getting ridiculous. There has been a lot of progression in terms of acceptance but when it comes to the marriage rights they are still getting denied.

How damn ironic was it that Mormons were instrumental in getting Prop 8 passed. A group of people who have specialized underwear that protects them from knife attacks and marry 8 women at a time have a problem with two adults of the same sex having the right to a civil union.

 
blackkodiak
Mar 24, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: hottubwille Show

Nothing, as far as I'm concerned. Polygamy shouldn't be a crime -- the abuse of women and children in polygamist communities is.

 
frankiej4189
Mar 24, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jonjax71 Show

Can you honestly say that there is just as much racism and hatred in American hearts for black people today as there was 50 years ago? Or what about how women were treated back then? Do you really believe that they're not given 10 times what they had at the turn of the 20th century?

 
ornotdotcom
Aug 07, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
What will if affect you or your life if two people regardless sex, decide to go further with there relationship. It is still happening every day everywhere, lesbian couples, gay couples. By not letting them get married is not stopping what you dont support. Everyone should have a chance and everyone should be happy.

 


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