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Israeli War Crimes
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thoughtprocess
Mar 23, 2009
8 votes
7 debaters
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5
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jonjax71
Mar 23, 2009
3 convinced
Rebuttal
Hey speaking just for me self, I don't even recognize the State of Israel and how they were formed in 1947. USA's biggest annual expenditure is Israel, I say cut out that expense from the budget

 
thoughtprocess
Mar 24, 2009
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: wicked Show

My information comes from the Israeli newspaper Haaret'z. I tend to get more information from Israeli sources seeing as how they tend to be more honest and confront the truth about what is going on in this conflict.

Now onto some of your points. You think that because TWO of the Israeli soldiers who are coming forward weren't deployed in Gaza that discounts the testimonies from all the rest of the soldiers? It seems like you are trying to find anyway of not having to face the truth. There are thousands of men and women in Israel who refuse to serve in the IDF and others who have given their testimonies to widespread abuse of Palestinians condoned by top levels of government.

So what if the UNRWA building wasn't hit?! What about the other hospitals, schools, mosques and civilian homes. Just as there are lies and misreporting on the activities of Israel so too are there lies about Hamas. And it is a weak argument if you try and explain away Israel's widespread crimes against humanity if you rely on terrorism, terrorism, terrorism, Hamas, Hamas, Hamas. Israel has been committing crimes against humanity for decades. Before Hamas even existed.
The majority of civilian deaths have nothing to do with Hamas. They have to do with the fact that Israel is out of control.

Israel helped radicalize Hamas anyway. They helped create Hamas because they wanted to use them against the PLO. Israel is just going to continue playing this insane game and innocent Palestinians and Israeli's are going to be the one's who pay.

Hamas is a disgusting backwards fundamentalist violent organization that hurts the Palestinians and contributes to their plight. But Israel's violence and terrorism dwarfs Hamas' violence and terrorism. It is like a boulder compared to a pebble in the long run.
It all comes back to Israel's brutal occupation. Israel's crimes have been constant throughout times when Palestinians were being peaceful and even when there were ceasefires.

And please don't bring up that garbage about Israel pulling out of Gaza in 2005. Gaza was still a prison. Israel controlled their borders, their air and the sea. They were still starving, dying without medicine and couldn't rebuild their economy. That is not freedom. You don't seem to realize that Palestinians are human beings. They won't settle for a little freedom or some freedom.

Freedom either comes complete or it isn't freedom.

 
jonjax71
Mar 24, 2009
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: denverdannydee Show

Anti semitic? Do you even know what the defintion actually is? Semites are much more than persons who follow judaism, in fact many jews are not semites at all-they're Eastern Europeans, semite : a member of any of various ancient and modern peoples originating in southwestern Asia, including the Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs.

I am anti Zionism though which is completely different than anit semitic which I am not, I am very pro semitic.

 
thoughtprocess
Mar 23, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Well Thoughtprocess I believe these crimes take place far too often and are a result of the fact that the higher ups don't have any incentive to prevent these abuses because there is not enough action taken when these reports come to light.

Not many people have any problem believing reports uncovering crimes by Arab terrorists but many, mainly within the U.S., do not believe Israel is guilty of widespread crimes against humanity because first of all they are not Arab, and secondly their actions are not labeled as terrorism. Even when reports come out by Israel's own soldiers confirming widespread murder of civilians many people will still laugh at the idea that these acts could be classified as terrorism. This is mainly in the West though where most news stations won't even mention the word occupation when reporting on the conflict. In much of the rest of the world the truth is out there.

By the way I posted two related articles from the Israeli Newspaper Haaret'z in the news section for reference.

 
thoughtprocess
Mar 24, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: denverdannydee Show

LOL.

 
brivapor
Mar 23, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
The Neatherlands would be off limits to any Isreali war criminals
Kind of ironic, they wouldnt be able to see Ann Franks place(the one where she hid from the nazis) because they themselves are acting like nazis

 
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eitan
Mar 26, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
I see it very simply. If the Palestinians were to lower their weapons and refuse to fight their would be peace. If the Israelis were to lower their weapons and refuse to fight, there would be a massacre.

As the conflict is still unfolding and no solution is in sight, our efforts should be committed to finding a solution as opposed to finding guilt. The Israeli's have been willing to sacrifice so much for the sake of peace, everything except for it's independence. Giving up their independence would mean their slaughter. There are numerous cases, a few mentioned above, where Israelis did more than what was expected of them in the name of peace. On the other side of the coin, you have fanatical extremists who do not use logic nor reason but religious self righteousness and condemnation to murder people. Simple.

 
denverdannydee
Mar 23, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jonjax71 Show

You need to be happy that the US supports Israel, if it wasn't for us the extreme Moslems would rule Israel & America and the world, Israel keeps them in check. Christians, Moslems and Jews all live in Israel because it is the one and only Holy Land, don't you worry bout man's laws, trials and tribulations, the creator has a master plan. You sound anti-semitic

 
wicked
Mar 23, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
The so-called Israeli war crimes are media hype.

If you followed the news closely (VERY closely since the major news agencies don't like to talk about it) you'll discover that two of the IDF soldiers they interviewed who testified about war crimes *weren't even deployed in Gaza*! Combine that with the following:

-The UN admitted after the war that the UNWRA school itself wasn't actually hit. Then why the media lied about it?

-The well-documented phenomenon called "Pallywood", where Palestinians fake injuries and death in order to exaggerate their situation and generate sympathy toward themselves.

-The fact the BBC investigated its own reporting and submitted a conclusion that finds its own reports *heavily biased toward the Palestinian side.*

So yes, if your information comes from mainstream media, you're likely to think Israel committed heinous warcrimes. However when you consider these under-reported facts:

-Israel dropped leaflets warning of an impending attack over any bombing site hours in advance.

-Israel called homes that were about to be bombed and told its inhabitants to evacuate.

-The Israeli military worked closely with lawyers in international law during the war.

-Every single day of the conflict a one hour humanitarian cease fire was observed.

-During said cease fire, the Israeli's let trucks of humanitarian aid come into Gaza (which were quickly picked clean by Hamas, I might add).

-There actually WERE real published and documented cases of human rights violations in Gaza, by high-standing officers even. However, the soldiers who did it were put on court martial.

All the above are independently verified facts. Facts that are inconsistent with the image of a mad military shooting civilians left and right. When you ALSO consider the following:

-Hamas fights and launches rockets from heavily populated areas (documented).

-Hamas puts mines in their own schools and ammunition in their own mosques (documented).

-Hamas uses ambulances for transportation (documented).

-Hamas fighters often uses a white flag to move around to prevent drawing fire (undocumented, but true according to eyewitnesses among Israeli soldiers, if you trust them)

-Hamas fighters often fight without uniform or any identifying mark, and are later counted as killed civilians (documented)

All the above are violations of the Geneva conventions by the way.

So as you can see, this story has two sides, just like every story.

 
wicked
Mar 23, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: brivapor Show

Kid, you have no idea what you're talking about.

The Nazis killed 6 millions in 9 years.

The Israelis killed what? 5 thousands? 10 thousands TOPS in 60 years?

There is no comparison.
Besides, as far as I know the Jews in Europe weren't bombing Germans on a regular basis.

 
wicked
Mar 24, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: thoughtprocess Show

I'm not disputing that there was some misconduct in this war, I'm just condemning the way people like you and the media jump on this opportunity to demonize Israel even though unlike among the Palestinians these cases are investigated, the responsible are punished, and Israel generally goes out of its way to avoid harming civilians. Iraq or Chechnya don't get a fraction of the attention of the Human Rights groups even though the stuff Israeli soldiers did pale compared to some of the atrocities committed in those countries by the USA and Russia respectively.

I have no problem with accusations if they have a basis, but I'd like them to be balanced and fair, which they're not.

Schools mosques and hospitals were hit because there was ammunition stored there and rockets launched from their vicinity. This is DOCUMENTED. Israel did what it could by dropping leaflets and calling buildings. Frankly I'm disappointed that you've apparently completely ignored what I've said. How many times I'll have to repeat it?

 
denverdannydee
Mar 24, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: thoughtprocess Show

You won't be laffing if Israel should ever crumble because shortly after that the extreme Moslems will take over the world and we'll be praying in Arabic. Israel is the roadblock that keeps the extreme Moslems in check in the Middle East which also keeps them in check against America because thanks to America giving them money Israel has the best military in the world, we should learn from them because they don't take no crap

 
undeniabledilemma
Apr 11, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jonjax71 Show

Evidence? Thanks.

 


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