Login/Sign Up




Israel vs. Palestine
Politics

adam1974
Feb 04, 2007
43 votes
15 debaters
23
16
11
8
7
5
4
1


+ Add Argument

23
Israel


reezer
Feb 04, 2007
5 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: palestine4life

You are aware that Israel's current borders are a direct result of land seized after the Arab world banded together to wipe Israel off the map, right? ("Six Day War" ring a bell).

Not that Israel is completely clean and above board in this conflict. But I see Israel's missteps as more the overreactions of the harrassed more than "Zionist Aggression"*.


* A phrase I've learned is shorthand for "Israel is evil and America** is evil for supporting them" and pretty much signals the end of meaningful debate.

** And why does America get so much historical hate in that conflict? It was Britain that gave the Jews that land, not America. And I don't recall that the Arabs had much of a problem that the land wasn't theirs in name until the Jews moved in. If I'm wrong about that, please point me to a source.

 
knoxjs
Feb 04, 2007
4 convinced
Rebuttal
Only because Israel is backed by the United States 110%

 
knoxjs
Feb 04, 2007
4 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: palestine4life

firstly

you should spell illegal correctly.

second. Israel is the only true Democratic country in the region. I'd back Israel in a heart beat.

 
knoxjs
Feb 04, 2007
3 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: palestine4life

Lol no, in fact I'm a Democrat who happens to be working for a Non-profit in Scotland....I think I look outside the box quite often...I just have a soft spot for Israel.

 
knoxjs
Feb 04, 2007
3 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: palestine4life

But the Jews being Brutalized in the first place is how we got to where we are today!

People using another set of people as a scapegoat, I just don't think its fair.

 
reezer
Feb 04, 2007
3 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: palestine4life

"wow man, have you ever heard of the Ottoman Empire?"

I was referring to the last century or so.

Besides, if you want to get THAT technical, the Jews were there first. (Old Testament, FTW).

 
knoxjs
Feb 04, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: palestine4life

What a well thought out statement.

Israel is going to stay where its at, you an I both know that.

 
adam1974
Feb 04, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Oh Boy!
I just started this open debate 3 minutes ago and after reading the book "Palestine: Peace not Apartheid".

Let's have a healthy debate on whether Israel/Palestine should be a single state (Israel) or two-state (Israel/Palestine) solution.

 
knoxjs
Feb 04, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: serge

Thats very well thought out, and it only goes to prove, the situation isn't going to get better, before it gets worse.

But in all honesty, it all comes down to who you're friends with in a situation like this.

Palestinians brutalize a already very brutalized sect of society...They do tend to over react...but look whats happened when they didn't react in the past.

 
adam1974
Feb 04, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: serge

"I am Israel - I came to a land without a people for a . ."
"I am Israel - carved in 1948 out of 78% of the lands of ."
"I am Israel - in 1967, I swallowed the remaining . . . "
"I am Israel - I influence American mainstream media . ."
"I am Israel - with the fourth strongest army in the . ."

And there in lies the genius of Israel! Israel is able to use such "smarts" and favor negotiation, Foreign policy funds, and the world sympathy to their side!

Absolutely, the Palestinians are suffering a lot today, under Apartheid in the West bank. However, Palestine leadership is too focussed on victimhood and not built on what the future holds. There is way too much rhetoric among Arabs that Israel needs to be "wiped out". Resorting to a revenge-based strategy for the statehood of Palestine will not bring about a constructive solution.

Again I don't blame Palestinians on using vengeance. When an IDF soldier shoots a grandmother, a father and a mother; the focus for departed's family becomes revenge by suicide bombing. This is where the Palestine leadership should change the game.

Sure, the AIPAC Lobby and media influence is powerful. There is nothing "evil" about that. Like any lobby fighting for their cause, AIPAC just became amazingly good!
There's nothing stopping Arab Americans to push for a similar palestinian cause.

 
largecerebrum1
Feb 04, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: palestine4life

Actually, the creation of Israel came about through the UN. The Arab states didn't agree with the decision, and a war broke out which Israel won.

 
largecerebrum1
Feb 04, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: palestine4life

Their homes contain people who love to target Israeli civilians and some of those people are members of those families. And the land is Israel's. Oh, and accidents are bound to happen, especially when the militants keep hiding in civilian areas. Do the Israeli military hide in the middle of their cities? Oh no, but lets blow up Israeli civilian targets anyways. And it seems Hamas and Fatah are doing a great job of killing each other without the help of Israel.

 
reezer
Feb 07, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: adam1974

Having followed up on most of the English-language write-ups on The Haganah, I fail to find any evidence of "terror acts" they perpetrated on Arabs. If you can cite incidents, please do.

 
knoxjs
Feb 04, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
an Israel/Palestine state is a bit unrealistic at this point.

Even if it is in the best interest, with the fuzzy feelings and all....I don't see it happening.

 
knoxjs
Feb 04, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: palestine4life

Have you seen the way the Jews have been treated in the last 2000 years?

I'd be pretty defensive too living in an area where everyone wants me wiped off the map.

an please, who's sounding like a propaganda machine now?

 
reezer
Feb 04, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Israel - but only because I assume the question is "Which do you support."

 
knoxjs
Feb 04, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: adam1974

Thats true, I agree with you.

But we are all products of what we come from, angry Israelis included.

 
knoxjs
Feb 04, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: serge

cheers.x

 
knoxjs
Feb 04, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: palestine4life

Yeah, I've heard those PLO folks are lovely to have as flat mates.



 
largecerebrum1
Feb 07, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: adam1974 Show

I'm not arguing against the use of suicide bombers, I'm against the diliberate targeting of civilians rather than military targets. Also, Israel was at a military disadvantage during the 1948 war, but they didn't decide to start bombing civilians.

Actually, it was a group that split off from Haganah that commited the violent acts. Also, what's your point? If they did diliberately commit acts against civilians, it doesn't mean I support it. Also, it was formed in response to the Arab riots.

 
largecerebrum1
Feb 07, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: palestine4life Show

It's okay if my family is willingly helping me.

I didn't change the subject. I'm just saying that with Israel out of the area, they fight each other, and so, Israel isn't the problem. Also, if we do let them have the whole area, how do we know they just won't spread the fighting to the whole area?

 
largecerebrum1
Feb 08, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: egyptianactivist Show

I'm not digressing. It's a reason to support Israel.

 
largecerebrum1
Feb 11, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: adam1974 Show

So we both agree that terrorism is wrong then?

 
ranlola
Feb 12, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: palestine4life Show

**** Mid-east spin-phrase dictionary ****

"Israel is an Apartheid state" -
A phrase coined in the late 90's by well-paid PR stars living on US and European foreign aid meant to feed starving palestinians (something their "leaders" were supposed to do, oh well).
In fact, Israel is one of the most ethnically and religously diverse countries in the world, with equal rights to every citizen. Notice the word citizen. Palestinians were offered citizenship and in 2000 offered a country. Their leaders refused, instead asopting the more profitable approach of clan-lords. I mean, if Israel couldn't be blamed, who WOULD they blame for their peoples poverty while they have millions in swiss bank accounts?

"Zionist Aggresion/Imperialism" - Once again, your tax dollars at work! Zionism sounds really bad, the letter Z is psychologically bothersome. And we all hate -isms. In fact, Zionism only infers to a Jewish state in Zion. It doesnt talk about it's borders or it's relations to it's neighbours. How would you explain that the awful Zionist Imperialist Aggressive entity is the only country in the mid-east with peace-rallies, a large left wing, peace songs on the radio and DEMOCRACY?

"Israeli Terrorism" - If Hamas spent millions a year on a special unit who's sole purpose is to call people on the phone and tell them "ummm, were going to bomb your building since there is a Katyusha rocket-launcher in Apt. 2A, so please leave" like Israel did, and billions more on super-precision TV-guided bombs so as not to hurt the fly buzzing next to the schoolbus-bomb-planner then they wouldnt be called terrorists would they?



 
ranlola
Feb 12, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: adam1974 Show

How can you equate the assasination of a political figure with blowing up busses and attacking schools and civilian centers with the purported aim of causing as much carnage as possible?

Honestly I dont understand, please explain.

 
ranlola
Feb 13, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: adam1974 Show

This is why digging up history leads to a rathole and not help for a solution.

I agree with you there.
Jewish POLITICAL Terrorism is history.
Palestinian Terror is not. Its a day to day fact.

If there were no Palestinian terrorism, would it have made you feel better the Palestinian deaths were 10x and 20x?

If there was no Palestinian terror, they would already have a prosperous state.

Ask yourself, why were there so many children in the Palestinian deaths?

Becuase of the cynical use of children and civilian population for propaganda purposes.
Its quite simple really. If your'e a terrorist, you would stop at nothing to get your way and destroy your enemy, you have no problem using your own civilian population as a human shield. If they survive then you survive, and if they get killed then you got a great photo-op.

Please watch "Peace, Propaganda & Promised Land" and try to understand why?

Thanks for proving my point. An Israeli (Batsheva Ratzkoff) making an anti-Israeli film. Welcome to Democracy 101. Some of our other lessons include: Supreme court of Israel stops military from using brutal tactics, Gaza strip completely evacuated from Jewish settlers (to make way for new Palestinian rocket-launch sites).

Thats why I use terrorism as a moral standpoint. Israel has in place controls to limit what the army can or cant do. The army wants to achieve strategic and tactical goals and will stop at almost nothing. The supreme court and the govt limit it, usually as response to very active left-wing activists and human rights organizations.

On the other hand, the Palestinians are un-controlled and outwardly refuse to recognize Israel's right to even exist, ie they must all die!
Now THAT is terror.

 
glatner
Feb 14, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: adam1974 Show

Actually, Jews were considered second class citizens in the muslim empire. They had to pay special taxes, and wear special clothing. They had limited work rights. Sounds kind of like Hitler's germany, doesn't it?



 
glatner
Feb 14, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: serge Show

Actually, Israel doesn't have the fourth largest army. not even in the top five.

China – 2,840,000
United States – 1,431,000
Russia – 1,200,000
India – 1,145,000
North Korea 1,055,000

http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/currentconflicts/a/fivelargestmil.html

 
glatner
Feb 14, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: palestine4life Show

Actually, it was britain.

The balfour declaration, was passed by cabinet, while, Israel was under british control.

this is the balfour declaration.
"Foreign Office
November 2nd, 1917

Dear Lord Rothschild:

I have much pleasure in conveying to you. on behalf of His Majesty's
Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:

His Majesty's Government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge
of the Zionist Federation.

Yours,
Arthur James Balfour"

 
glatner
Feb 14, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: adam1974 Show

Quoting wikipedia?

Wow.... real reliable source, which you could of just edited.

Lehi was never brought into the IDF, and the Irgun, only after several changes in it's high command.

 
glatner
Feb 14, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: serge Show

It may interest people to know that the Grand Muft supported hitler.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:-AgZRElrKp4J:www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php+Grand+Mufti+Hajj+Amin+El+Husseini+hitler&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1



 
adlitchman
Mar 14, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: palestine4life Show

please specify how Israel is brutilizing the land, because that's a pretty large and vague claim.

as for me, I've been living here for close to two years now, toured all over, seen the "wall" (more like a fence) with my own two eyes and talked to arabs and jews alike. beleive me i'm not one to trust the media or beleive propaganda, i like to see things with my own two eyes.

My point is this: we can squabble meaninglessly forever about who had what first. We can go into the history and site every time who bombed who (which by the way is what happens when 5 huge sorrounding countries want to wipe out a small state...bombings occur)

but in the end, which government will bring down the body count? which will breed more hatered? egypt for example had been smuggling weapons into gaza for years and i know because i lobbied for the american gov't to pass an act that would put a stop to this (i can look up the number if you would like i dont have it off hand). israel had a fully functioning society in gaza and what was the first thing arabs did after these people were disengaged? burned synogouges. rioted in the streets.

you need to understand, whether the world would like to realize it or not, the hatred is there and has always been flying both ways. From my experience living here, the situation is not within the confines of the UN, it's deeply rooted in religion and goes back for centuries untill the point where jews and arabs were once brothers. because of this and because jews and arabs alike are stubborn, it will be a battle to the death. arabs have prooven no peace treaty can confine them and the israeli people hate giving up land. how many more times can they fake smiles?

I vote for the current state of israel to keep existing.if you have any questions I would be happy to answer and give you credable sources. I would love to have a debate on the matter. I can promise you that even though i am firm in my beleifs i am open to your opinion and am very interested. look forward to hearing from you but untill then here are some facts you might like to know...


fact. it's the only stable and democratic society in the middle east.
fact. within 50 years they have built up a fully functioning modern country (95% literacy rate-taken from the un census)
fact. ISRAEL IS SMALLER THAN THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY as opposed to iran+iraq+egypt+pakistan+syria+jordan+lebanon
fact. the wall protects the arab-israelis (as they call themselvs) within it as well as the israelis.
fact. Israel has given a lot of land to the arabs for the sake of peace



 
cynicalcitizen
Oct 03, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
The Jewish people were brutalised and slaughtered during WW2, and rightly fear it occuring again. Their country is surrounded by enemies. They have been invaded and bombarded in recent history. They have every right to be overzealously defensive, and they have the right to live where they do.

 
patti
May 11, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: adam1974 Show

Israelites have always been beaten down, and since Zionism there is Israel ..

They deserve a better chance at offense ..

The Palestinians have had years to figure it out

 
+ Add Argument

20
Palestine


palestine4life
Feb 04, 2007
5 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: knoxjs

anyhuman being that sees the real israel would change their mind in no time.

how could you have a soft spot for a country brutilizing the natives of a land, killing countless people, destroying thousands of homes and kicking millions out.

like i said tho, your a victim or propaganda.

i just want you to open your mind and think for yourself.

 
serge
Feb 04, 2007
4 convinced
Rebuttal
What Israel made with Palestine is a crime against humanity. There's no difference between zionists and radical Muslims. The fact is Israel has the 4th largest army in the World and America's veto in the UN and Palestinians have rocks. Israel violates every UN resolution, by keeping settlements in West Bank. How can peace be achieved if both sides think they are right?

History's legacy created divisive issues between Palestinians and Israelis. Judea, home of the Jews in ancient times, was conquered by the Romans and renamed Palestine. Palestine was later conquered and inhabited by Arabs for over a thousand years. The Zionist movement arose to restore the Jews to Israel, largely ignoring the existing Arab population. Following the Balfour Declaration in 1917, Palestine was granted to Britain as a League of Nations mandate to build a national home for the Jewish people. The Arabs resented the Jews coming in to take their land. Led by Grand Mufti Hajj Amin El Husseini, they rioted repeatedly and later revolted, creating a history of enmity between Jews and Arabs in Palestine. Britain stopped Jewish immigration to Palestine. Following the Holocaust, in which 6 million Jews were killed by the Nazis, pressure on Britain increased to allow Jewish immigration to Palestine. In 1947, the UN partitioned the land into Arab and Jewish states. The Arabs did not accept the partition and war broke out. The Jews won a decisive victory, expanded their state and created several hundred thousand Palestinian refugees. The Arab states refused to recognize Israel or make peace with it. Wars broke out in 1956, 1967, 1973 and 1982, and there were many terror raids and Israeli reprisals. Each side believes different versions of the same history. Each side views the conflict as wholly the fault of the other and expects an apology.

 
egyptianactivist
Feb 04, 2007
4 convinced
Rebuttal
" You worry about your education and the bills you have to pay, I worry about my vulnerable life, and if I'll survive another day...you worry about getting a ticket when you cruise your cadillac, I worry about whether or not this tank would come back...american do you realize that the taxes that you pay, feed the forces that traumatize my every living day..(a palestinian).

So there was the holocaust. It was bad. Some say it happened, others say it didn't. The ones that say it happened are in charge of the media, so naturally, they have the last say. The holocaust and all its trauma gets propogated in the media. Now dont get me wrong Im not denying the holocaust. It was tragic, for many probably, but the media, kept telling us over and over again about it to the extent that everything else that was happening around that time seemed obsolete. Amongst which was the establishment of "Israel". Britain took the land from under the Palestinians and gave it to the Jews, and a few years later our beloved UN second the motion, Thousands of Arabs started getting mistreated, robbed from their homes, and killed. The kjews, wanting to fight hate with hate, anger with anger, stated taking out their fury on the Palestinians. They wanted to grow, and with the UN behind them, and the US and Britain, they could do that. But no one heard about these angry arabs, well eventually they did, they called them terrorists, but that was a half a century later. Back in the day though, all that was in the news was the holocaust this the holocaust that, while Arabs were being mugged from their homeland. Its called propaganda.

This is similar to 9/11. 3000 people got killed in 9/11, 4000 americnas got killed in Iraq, 45,000 Iraqis killed in Iraq, and who knows how many palestinians got killed, and in Somalia, and Sudan, the list goes on, in Rwanda, in Haiti, but who do we hear about? 9/11. Why? because the media propagates the atrocities and blows them up. The first time the US gets attacked on its soil since pearl harbor, of course it is worth seven years of media coverage day in day out....only to fidn at the end that it was staged.

 
serge
Feb 04, 2007
4 convinced
Rebuttal
I am Israel - I came to a land without a people for a people without a land. Those people who happened to be here, had no right to be here, and my people showed them they had to leave or die, razing 480 Palestinian villages to the ground, erasing their history.
I am Israel - some of my people committed massacres and later became Prime Ministers to represent me. In 1948, Menachem Begin was in charge of the unit that slaughtered the inhabitants of Deir Yassin, including 250 men, women, and children. In 1953, Ariel Sharon led the slaughter of the inhabitants of Qibya, and in 1982 arranged for our allies to butcher the refugees in the camps of Sabra and Shatilla.
I am Israel - carved in 1948 out of 78% of the land of Palestine, dispossessing its inhabitants and replacing them with Jews from Europe and other parts of the world. While the natives whose families lived on this land for thousands of years are not allowed to return, Jews from all over the world are welcome to instant citizenship.
I am Israel - in 1967, I swallowed the remaining lands of Palestine - the West Bank and Gaza - and placed their inhabitants under an oppressive military rule, controlling and humiliating every aspect of their daily lives. Eventually, they should get the message that they are not welcome to stay, and join the millions of Palestinian refugees in the shanty camps of Lebanon and Jordan.
I am Israel - All the forces of the world are powerless against me, including the UN as I have the American veto to block any condemnation of my war crimes. As Sharon so eloquently phrased it, "We control America". I am Israel - I influence American mainstream media too, and you will always find the news tailored to my favor. I have invested millions of dollars into Page Ranking representation, and CNN, New York Times, and others have been doing an excellent job of promoting my propaganda. Look at other international news sources and you will see the difference.
I am Israel - and you Palestinians want to negotiate "peace!?" But you are not as smart as me; I will negotiate, but will only let you have your municipalities while I control your borders, your water, your airspace, and anything else of importance. While we "negotiate," I will swallow your hilltops and fill them with settlements, populated by the most extremist of my extremists, armed to the teeth. These settlements will be connected with roads you cannot use, and you will be imprisoned in your little Bantustans between them, surrounded by checkpoints in every direction.
I am Israel - with the fourth strongest army in the world, possessing nuclear weapons. How dare your children confront my oppression with stones, don't you know my soldiers won't hesitate to blow their heads off? Since your intifada, I have killed thousands of you, mostly civilians, and have the mandate to continue since the international community remains silent. Ignore, as I do, the hundreds of Israeli soldiers who are now refusing to carry out my control over your lands and people; their voices of conscience will not protect you.
I am Israel - and you want freedom? I have bullets, tanks, missiles, Apaches, and F-16's, to obliterate you. I have placed your towns under siege, confiscated your lands, uprooted your trees, demolished your homes, and you still demand freedom? Don't you get the message? You will never have peace or freedom, because I am Israel.

 
palestine4life
Feb 04, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
What is the question?

israel is an apartheid state holding an illigal military occupation againsed the palestinian people.

its a 60 year conflict and you can sum it up with a question like Israel or Palestine?



 
palestine4life
Feb 04, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: reezer

"I was referring to the last century or so. "

uhh yeah... up to 1917 buddy,


"Besides, if you want to get THAT technical, the Jews were there
first. (Old Testament, FTW)."

im not saying the jews should jsut leave,

im telling you what theyre doing is inhumane,

they could, and they have co-existed for thousands of years.


 
palestine4life
Feb 04, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: knoxjs

yeah who made em the way they are?

israelis destroying their homes, killing their families and kicking them ot of their own land.

justify that buddy.

 
palestine4life
Feb 04, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: knoxjs

so you agree with everything your gov't does?
even if its inhumane?
what ever happend to people thinking for themselves these days?

why dont you open your mind and try to see the truth by yourself.

 
palestine4life
Feb 04, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: knoxjs

haha, your picking on my spelling?
thats lame man.

i cant blame you tho, since the media spoonfeeds you this bullsh*t.



 
palestine4life
Feb 04, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: knoxjs

man, not to sound anti-semitic everytime someone says anything about israel the first thing you hear is about all the sh*t the jews went thru.

well lemme tell you this my friend, the jews went thru a whole lotta sh*t, and no ones denying that, i feel for them

but nothing justifies the war crimes theyre commiting in palestine, nothing makes it ok for them to do to the palestinian people what the nazia did to them.

so please leave this out of it.

 
palestine4life
Feb 04, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: reezer

Wow man thats absolutely ridiculous, you have no idea what your talking about.


"It was Britain that gave the Jews that land, not America. "

becasue Britian isnt the one that has given israel 100 billion dollers in aid,
its not the one that gives them the tanks and fighter jets to destroy the land.

" I don't recall that the Arabs had much of a problem that the land wasn't theirs in name until the Jews moved in"

wow man, have you ever heard of the Ottoman Empire?

why dont you read osme history book before you argue such a sketchy topic.

 
adam1974
Feb 04, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: reezer

The jews, christians and muslims co-existed peacefully in the land before the formation of Israel. In fact, Jews were still considered a "people of the book" in the Quran and were given a special status. The trouble started when a mass influx of jews came into the land because of jewish persecution in Europe.

This hit the nerve of the Arab regime at the time.

 
adam1974
Feb 05, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: largecerebrum1

I will use a cheapshot with a google/ copy/ paste

"The Palestinians are fighting with human suicide bombers, that's all they have. The Israelis ... they've got one of the most powerful military machines in the world. The Palestinians have nothing. So who are the terrorists? I would make a case that both sides are involved in terrorism."

These came from none other than CNN chief, Ted Turner.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,739466,00.html

This is what a minority does to a strong majority.

Moreover, before the formation of the state, Israel had a similar group called the Haganah, that committed terror acts on the then majority of the population, the arabs.

 
palestine4life
Feb 06, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: largecerebrum1

ok, lets say you pose a threat to me, is it ok to blow up your home killing your mother, father and siblings so tthe threat no longer exsits?

i suggust you read over your arguments before you post them to see how ridiculous you sound.

and dont change the subject buddy.

 
adam1974
Feb 12, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: ranlola Show

Oh Boy!

This is why digging up history leads to a rathole and not help for a solution. The political assassination case was just an example of Israeli aggression against non-military personnel.

There are several english language sources on Zionist terrorism. Lehi and Irgun have targetted civilians in pre-WWII times. Eventhough these groups were publicly condemned, the official Israel Defense forces, the Haganah group held frequent talks with them.

Again, terrorism should be dropped from the argument of why Palestinians should get any less support. To quote a cliche, One man's terrorism is another man's freedom fighting.

To quote on civilian deaths
1,084 Israelis: 4,406 Palestinians
Ratio = 4x
122 Israeli children : 869 Palestinian children
Ratio = 7x

All those Israeli deaths were due to terrorism. If there were no Palestinian terrorism, would it have made you feel better the Palestinian deaths were 10x and 20x?

Ask yourself, why were there so many children in the Palestinian deaths? Could they have been counted as terrorists? Were they hidden among the Hamas and Hezbollah? Better question is how many people know that more Palestinian civilians die from the hands of Israelis than the other way around.

Please watch "Peace, Propaganda & Promised Land" and try to understand why?

-- adam

 
sniper144
Feb 22, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
If you look at the history, Palestinians were also jewish, but there was nothing such as israel. Now the Jews are trying to takeover Palestine, and have created two sides: Palestinians and Israelis. So your telling me that if someone came over to your house, lived with you for a bit, kicked you out and claimed the house for himself, you would support him?

Israel is a pest that the world is trying to shutup, and what better way than to give them a place of their own?

Hitler tried to get rid of them, but couldn't. Now USA saw his mistakes and are trying to correct them.

 
adam1974
Feb 04, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: knoxjs

Hi knoxjs,

Being jewish myself, i don't think it is a fair argument to say

"Because, Hitler screwed us, now we have the world's permission to go screw with another group of people"



 
serge
Feb 04, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: knoxjs

That is a good argument m8.

/sarcasm

 
egyptianactivist
Feb 06, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
yeah dont digress man. Own your loss.

 
adam1974
Feb 11, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: reezer Show

Response to the question whether there have been "terror acts" from the Israeli side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence

One of the earlier rebuttals was right. The Haganah group practiced self-restraint. The split-off groups, Irgun and Lehi resorted to more terror tactics when the British gov't became more pro-palestinian.

 
adam1974
Feb 11, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: largecerebrum1 Show

No major point.

I am just showing that Israelis can't claim a holier-than-thou stance on terrorism. They were just as guilty as the Palestinian suicide bombers today. Also, the zionist terrorism was not in response to Arab riots. They were in response to a pro-palestinian opinion by the then British government. In fact, the Lehi group assassinated a UN mediator in 1948 who they believed to be too pro-Arab.

Well, I guess I have a point. Terrorism is a tactic of the weak. Its an act of desperation. The palestinians were desperate. The Israelis used it 60 years ago! Now the Palestinians have been using it for the last 15 years.

Hopefully, this is slowly changing. With improving Palestinian leadership, there is big decline in terror acts (cross fingers). With Jimmy Carter's latest book "Palestine: Peace, Not Apartheid", American Public Opinion is also slowly changing. As Americans, we are beginning to understand the Palestinian problem and will have seconds thoughts before blindly supporting our ally in middle east.

 
adam1974
Feb 12, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: largecerebrum1 Show

Yup! In full agreement.

I just dont think one can pull the terrorism card as to the reason why Israel should receive better moral support than Palestine.

 
enfist
Oct 09, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: adlitchman Show

i am not racist in anyway i hate everybody equally but i believe the people who had cared for the land and nurtured it for soo many years should be its legal country not a people who were victimised in WW2 for thousands of years the arabs took thier liberties and used them to make a economy but for thier land to be freely given away because jewish believe it was their promised land f**k that this is a country that purely belongs to palasinians they built thier homes to get either knocked down or colonialised i dont think so if i was prime minister of australia i would bomb the sh*t out of israel what they are doing is much worse than what sadam hussien ever did. they claim holocaust this holocaust that but isnt what they are doing to the palastinians exactly the same? wether they deserve land or not doesnt matter but what right do they have to be NAZI's well none and who in the western world cares? no one we only care if the jewish get killed not the thousands of palestinians getting killed each day no they are terrorist. but are they really no they are doing what is right they are fighting for their freedom and if thats what it takes to gain freedom then many more will die. they are opressed they are doing just as the irish did with the english or just as the incas did with the spanish or the australian aboriginals did with the english they are fighting for their land which belongs to them soo you tell me what makes it jewish land???????????



 
american27
May 27, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
As much as all the countries support Israel, they are wrong. Countries support Israel because of the terrorists acts taken by the Palestinians. sorry if i spelled that wrong im American what do you expect =].jk. Anyway, yea the Jews are there because of WWII, but then they want more land. It's f**king a piece of land a little bigger then my town, i don't see why the Palestinians cant just have it. and furthermore i don't hate either side but i do know whats right and wrong. Just like you idiots that think the U.S. should leave Iraq, because if we leave Iraq then they will cause another 9-11. And another thing, we ARE NOT FIGHTING ABOUT OIL IN IRAQ, IF WE WERE, OIL WOULDN'T BE $3.50 A FUCKING GALLON. WE ARE FIGHT TERRORISM THERE, THATS IT. $3.50 is a lot in american dollors....for gas anyways....

 
american27
May 27, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
WE ARE FIGHT TERRORISM THERE, THATS IT. $3.50 is a lot in american dollars....for gas anyways....

thats what i wrote but that one guys website got in the way

 
american27
May 27, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
whoops, i meant to put FIGHTING TERRORISTS THERE. lol. i spelled it wrong in the comment i put above

 


Use these tags to find similiar debates

britain death government politics uk 2008 2009 9/11 abortion Afghanistan america Arizona AU bad Baha BBC bias Biden boycott Britain bush canada capitalism Censorship cheney children China Christianity church cia Clinton Cold War commonwealth communism Communist congress conservative conservatives conspiracy Constitution Corruption country crime death debate defeat Democracy democrat Democrats detention discrimination drugs economics economy education election elections Ethics EU Europe Euthanasia evil Fascism feminism Fight France Frankie freedom Freedom of speech freedoms french gay Gaza george bush Georgia global global warming goverment government Great Britain Guantanamo Bay guns Health Health Care Healthcare Hillary hillary clinton History Hitler homosexual human rights illegal illegal immigration immigration india iran Iranian presidential election iraq islam Israel japan Jewish juggernaut justice Karl law laws legal legislation liberal lies marijuana marriage mccain media Medicine mexico middle east military monarchy money moral morals Mugabe Muslim Muslims news North Korea nuclear nukes Obama objective Oil opression Osama pakistan Palestine Palin Panda paradox parliament peace petition philosophy policy politicians Politics polygamy power president Prime Minister prisoners protest Public Affairs punishment queen race racism religion republican Republicans revolution right rights Rove russia Saddam Sarkozy Security sex socialism Society South Korea sovereignty Supreme court tax taxes terror terrorism terrorist terrorists Tibet torture Troop U.S. uk un united nations united states us usa vancam vote Votes voting war washington weapons wmd women world wrong