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God was created by mankind
Religion

w8in
Feb 04, 2007
195 votes
55 debaters
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+ Add Argument

137
Yes


w8in
Feb 04, 2007
13 convinced
Rebuttal
I understand people have the need for there to be a creator, because they need an answer to why we're here on this planet (I say "Who cares, life's too short to find out", but everyone's entitled to their quest in life)

I have the feeling though that God was created as "our" answer to be the creator. If there's a creator at all, I can't imagine he's just like the Bible describes it.



 
nathan
Feb 04, 2007
4 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: malachovsky

God has been used throughout history to explain the unexplainable, why the sun rises, why we die, etc. God was a crude form of science, a reason things happened. I think that now we can explain a great deal with science that we no longer need to use God as the explanation. We cannot explain everything yet, and we might never be able to do so. But the biggest challenge to God is that we have no proof that He exists, besides rhetoric about complexity of life from the intelligent design crowd. In short we made God up to explain the unexplainable and He has outlived his usefulness in this area

 
cook
Feb 04, 2007
3 convinced
Rebuttal
Everything, not only God, exists only within our minds.

 
wigg1es
Feb 06, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: alosh

what force made the earth revolve around the sun? i think that might be explained by a little thing called gravity. you see, objects of mass have a certain power of attraction over objects of smaller mass. do i need to keep going? ok, maybe just a little bit farther. so now you wonder why the earth wasn't just sucked straight into the sun by its gravity. well, you see, there was this little thing that science has come to know as the Big Bang. in essence the Big Bang was a cosmic explosion that hurled matter in all directions. so, we can see that because of this explosion, we have now have directional movement. when you combine directional movement with gravity, what do you get? very good... an ORBIT!

of course, because we are dealing with forces that occurred 10 to 20 billion years ago, certain things, like the cause of the explosion can never be explained because obviously, all the evidence is gone (after all it was an explosion).

thusly, your main point for the existence of a god has just been proven defunct by widely known and accepted science.

your other examples in now way implicate the existence of a god. you argue that everything was created by something, and this is true. however, your arguments in no way illustrate any presence of divinity. you simply say that everything was created by something, which is a true scientific fact. its one of the first laws of physics; matter is neither created nor destroyed, it only changes form, and likewise with energy.

i agree with the other rebuttals that god is not an explanation for what can not be explained. not in todays day and age at least. in ancient native cultures this was the case, but no longer. in todays society, god is a fail-safe. when things go bad for people, they turn to this god for comfort of consolation. god is an imaginary construct to give people comfort in despair and hope in the complete lack of hope.

look at how people console each other when someone dies; "it is all in god's plan" or "god has a reason for this"

 
konakuer
Sep 23, 2008
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Of course, God is only an invention for people to act morally correctly...and to take a lot of money from people

 
nix
Feb 05, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
God in the traditional sense, as well as the "Christ Figure" phenomenon, is nothing new and certainly not unique to the Christian religion. The very need to find meaning for our lives and reasons for natural activity leads us to look for answers outside what we know. Nearly all religions have one or more gods, and more interestingly, there is almost always a figure who sacrifices himself for the good of the people, performs miracles, etc. Modern religion is simply the newest (I use the word "new" somewhat ironically here) attempt to explain what we don't know. Why are there no more sun gods? Because we know what the sun is now. But since we haven't explained the entire universe or the silly idea of a "meaning of life", we look to a large, bearded figure to take us in his arms and give us what we want. In fact, taking that description into account, our traditional idea of a god is no more than an adult's version of Santa Claus, which, of course, makes sense. He watches us to make sure we are good, or no presents!

 
oldebater
Feb 06, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Arguents for or against the existence of God have undoubtedly existed since the conception has existed. Because little is known of prehistoric times at the debut of mankind (as scientists know it) in regard to their social and personal constructs of meaning, the divination of some is an unfounded assumption, however, with regard to the opposition's argument, you must affirm, and inductively assume that the concept of religion, and in turn, God, is more of a social construct created by mavericks for several motives, most notably to enforce power, inspire hope, and to give a rigid code of behavior that could not be challenged because of the abscence of pragmatic thought in the prehistoric mind.

Now to the opposing arguments. Seemingly the only foundation to the fundamentalist Christian thought exhibit in much of the argument cites the Bible as its foundation and fact for the conclusion drawn that we originate from a creator who concieved us all. Foremost, notice that the Bible scriptures used for the most part are from translations of translations of translations, and with regard to the differences from the Vulgate to the King James Version, it seems that key features of the Bible experienced morphological changes that included more rigid control of peoples, and therefore should be discounted.

Moreover, the concept of the Bible is that it is a compilation of the insiprations of certain Prophets, Apostles, etc., and I am incredibly surprised at how easily people accept their good word, because in my opinion, it is more inductively sound to assume that those mentioned as writers in the compiled Bible, like King James, may have exploited the "God-fearing" peoples to unquestionably accept their declarations for purposes of self-promotion.

Regardless, the arguments for the opposition in use of the Bible do not answer what I believe is the fundamental question here "Is God, or Religion, a construct of Man?" If anything, evidence of the affirmative is reinforced by the Men of the Bible writing of God's existence, and the abscence of the claim that the Bible was dropped to the Earth by the Creator himself.

 
ustation
Feb 07, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
If there was a God, we would all share the same religion. Instead humanity fights over which God shall prevail.

 
tggdan3
Feb 07, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: adrianpeterson

God was a hypothesis. The greeks had 12 major gods- for each unexplainable event, such as the seasons, or the sun and moon rising (apollo in his flaming chariot chasing the goddess of the moon). As these things were discredited through science, the number of gods decreased until there was only one question.

Science can explain emotion. We cry (and feel sadness) because humans are weak as far as creatures go (compared to bears, wolves, etc) and must form a pack to survive. Emotions that ensure the stability of the pack ensure the survival of the genetic strain. People who didn't feel these things seperated from their pack and died off, and did not have babies, or did not care for their babies- and via natural selection those traits were passed down.



 
keir
Feb 07, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
god and christianty was created in order to control the people, cant you people see the way in which the bible has controlled people to form society and what better way to force people, such gulable people, to obey or believe than with this allpowerful image of god.

 
shadowofanightmare
Feb 08, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: sloria1 Show

how can we possibly be created to be like god when god is supposedly perfect? we cant. people by nature are "sinful and unclean" it isnt possible to be created in the image of god if god is prefect because we arent perfect.

god didnt creat morality. humans did. the bible is nothing but a series of stories put together to make people rethink what they may or may not do in life. and because someone did something a long time ago that made someone else feel bad, they deemed it unmoral. moral standards are changed to meet the times. for example, women werent allowed to vote, they werent even people, they were property, and it was "ok" to treat them as such. but times changed to meet others' opinions on what is right.

people are affraid of what they dont know, and what everyone doesnt know, is whether there is an afterlife. thus, the theory of a god was created to in attempts to explain it all away.

 
cleesee
Feb 09, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: alosh Show

PEOPLE JUST INVENTED GOD TO EXPLAIN WHAT THEY CAN'T UNDERSTAND AND YOU KNOW THAT EVERYONE HAS THOUGHT ABOUT THIS AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER

 
jurassic
Feb 11, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Debating an issue of faith is impossible. There can never, ever, be the proven existence of a creator, or else the idea that is religious "faith" dries up. There are those who wish to explain the creation of the universe through a God, and they should be allowed to. There are also those who believe that there should be no substitute for logic, reason, and the discovery of facts based on the scientific method. The means of the creation of the universe can and will probably be discovered by logical and rational means. The proof that God created the universe is impossible to discover, as this proof does not and will never exist.

 
anselm
Feb 11, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
the main challenge of our times is not to bludgeon each other with darwin and richard dawkins but to find a belief system that can straddle both the atheist and religious point of view.

on the one hand there is no evidence for the existence of god; everything aside from the moment of creation shows this. and the bible is fanciful medieval thinking in that light.

on the other hand the religious have a "god sense"; they feel the presence of god and they feel that life has meaning. they cite angels and miracles and grasp at historical record.

the only argument that can cover these divergent points of view is to acknowledge that "god does not exist...yet" and that there is a good likelihood that we will at some point create Him.

the religious can feel value in living a righteous life where their actions will eventually be judged; and can see themselves as the body of christ; that eventually their actions will create the god who will judge them.

the atheists can talk about the possibility of quantum back propagation of signals through time or artificial intelligence or the emergence of complexity from quarks to heavy atoms to life to intelligence and the like.

by looking towards the future the debate framing is shifted from dragging out weary old arguments and trying to dominate each other with blunt instruments to one of exploring the possibility of all things and the possible meaning of our lives.

common belief would allow us to more effectively cooperate as a species such that we might even continue to exist long enough to create the answer this question... in other words it really could be all about having an irrational faith.




 
illuminatus555
Feb 11, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: alosh Show

Quote, originally posted by alosh

"If you walk by and see a Car that everybody have no proof that anyone have made, would that mean it wasn't built by someone? I mean we didn't see it while it was being built (the same way we
couldn't see god creating the universe), The complexity and its fuel, cooling, breaking and A/C system is not a proof that it was made by someone? Something is truly missing. Do you have another explanation than that it was built/created by someone?"


Response:

I Lol'd at "If you walk by and see a Car that everybody have no proof that anyone have made, would that mean it wasn't built by someone?"

Before I start, let me say kudos on arranging the question to make it seem as if the above example works. It doesn't for several reasons.

First, your statement of "a Car that everybody have no proof that anyone have made" is not correct and based on erroneous assumption. A car can easily be demonstrated to be made by whatever manufacturer from where it came from.

Second, you have failed to allocate the burden of proof properly in the above example. If I claim that this car was made by someone (most probably a manufacturer) then ME would be the one responsible for providing EVIDENCE of its making. Not "providing evidence of it WASN'T made by someone." The celestial teapot has easily demonstrated this.

Ergo, when you apply the same analogy on god and it's creations you obviously have difficulty in providing the same EVIDENCE unlike the car example above.

 
illuminatus555
Feb 11, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: 02andersonm Show

I do not agree with the fact that believing in god gives you a moral code.

If you do, then you would be forced to admit that everything done in the old testament was "good" eg. slaying a person collecting firewood on the sabbath, moses condemning the killing of children and men in Numbers 31 and the instruction to kill anyone who favours serving other gods in deutoronomy 13.

If you then go on to say that those ones arent taken seriously no more, then your argument still fails to the fact that you cherry pick your moral codes from the bible. You knew which ones are good and which ones are bad hence demonstrating the point that you already have an innate moral code by which you set your reference upon.

 
csun022
Feb 11, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
god are jsut an excuse for insecure people to feel more confident about themselves. it's always good to know that someone is watching over our back, and we have a nice place to go to when we die instead of enternal darkness. if you ask those soo called chritians, the only reason they beleive in god is that they get to go to heaven, a good question to ask them is that " if there is no heaven would you still believe in god?? and i guess every christain will tell you NO YOUR WRON there is a heaven, the proof is in the bible, but who wrote the bible, bible are insecure people who think that there is a bettelr place waiting for them, who thinks there is lookign after them. although this is not nesscaryly be a bad thinig, becuase this give people hope, to live their lives.

 
illuminatus555
Feb 11, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: adrianpeterson Show

Quote, originally posted by adrianpeterson

"Discrediting the existence of God because we've discovered a lot of his secrets in design and nature does not mean that he doesn't exist."

Response:

Again, like alosh, and a lot of religious people, seem to consistently rephrase the question to look as if the burden of proof is on the non-believers.

Let me do a simple parody for you:
If I assert that a china teapot is revolving around mars in an elliptical orbit or that the flying spaghetti monster created all of us, you can discredit those two theories all you want based on science but "it still doesn't mean it does not exist"

If you still don't see the ludicrousness in that then I got nothing to say.


Quote, originally posted by adrianpeterson

"Ask science to explain why we cry, love, hate, feel pride, feel guilt, have pain, the reason for vision, the reason for hearing, have a concience, and have a sense that we have to help people."

Response:

Oh the ignorance displayed on this debate is exorbitant.

All the emotions you stated above are chemical interactions in the brain which can be isolated in specific areas. Hell, you can even isolate the area in which a person is experiencing religious miracles/hallucinations.

The reason for vision and hearing is simple. Read a biology text book.

As for our sense of moral code can be explained using the concepts of reciprocal altruism and kin selection.


 
illuminatus555
Feb 11, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: sloria1 Show

The rebuttal shall be the same as my above rebuttal to 02andersonm.

 
csun022
Feb 12, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: adrianpeterson Show

i guess, you or god can explain why we cry, love, hate, feel pridem feel guilty have pain, the reason for hearing, have a concience, and have a sense that we have to help people, u better start explaining, becuase if you think just becuase science doesn't explain something, the answer can then be related to god, then yours a such a dreamer, oh while you busy typing that god is the answer to all the natural unanswered problems, can you also explain to me why my best mates, dad whoe a faithful chritain all his life, got a screwed up liver, and have to live a terrible life of torture and darkness, the poor guy need to have his live washed 3 times a month. !!!! and i jsut wonder how could he still thank god... for keeping him alive all these years... instead blaming god.. for his terrible life.!!!

 
csun022
Feb 12, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: 02andersonm Show

agreed

 
csun022
Feb 15, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
iytt

 
alexliu
Mar 19, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Saying there is a god is simply stating that you don't know everything about how the universe and the world functions.

For example: We don't know for sure how the universe came to be so we invent this "imaginary person in the sky" to answer this question, instead of keeping an open mind and trying to solve these mysteries ourselves.

 
luigimaster64
Aug 27, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I think god's just someone black mailing others so he gets rich.

 
melancholykitsune
Jan 25, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: adrianpeterson Show

Science explains the emotions of the human body through the production of hormones and chemicals in the brain going up and down. Just to clear that one up for starters.
Although we have already seen that He has not revealed himself as a fact yet, the real question is "Why hasn't he?" If He loves all His children and wants to have a relationship with all of them (taking that from the Bible), then why doesn't he reveal himself and gain the Atheistic and Agnostic communities as a whole?

 
youngatheist
Feb 02, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: immy1000 Show

the egg came first.

the first mutated gene that is the modern chicken appeared in the egg, not the mother.

 
lfano
Jul 17, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Religion is used to explain something that we don't understand. When humans started to create these stories, listeners took them literally. As we became more advance in knowledge, we learned the true causes behind the happenings (ie. the sun and moon). When we don't know something we create stories to put our faith into. I believe this is what the bible was created for.

 
courtofjest
Nov 19, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: eman001 Show

Anybody that claims to know everything and always be correct is by definition antagonistic to the progression of society. Ignorance is what makes people brilliant because without it nobody would aspire to discover or progress in which case there would be no wheel and the world would still be flat. I understand that its in some people's psychology to need the security of knowing and those people more than likely would have been picked off by evolution if evolution still existed because an insecurity is weakness. It's no more rational than a pyromaniacs need to set fires and is no more than a mental illness.

 
smith686
Nov 21, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
If god created everything in our universe what created god? another god? and if he did in fact did create EVERYTHING this would mean he created himself..


 
rexy93
Dec 07, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
God -in the form portrayed by Christians in the Bible- was created by mankind, simply because the bible itself was created by human beings attempting to make sense of a World they did not understand, in an age before scientific enlightenment. That would seem innocent enough, yet the sad thing is the myths in the bible are still being used today by Christians and the religious elite to justify things we know to be morally incorrect, such as the Vatican's assertions that homosexuality is unnatural and that wearing a condom is a sin, (the latter is one of the main reasons the preventable HIV/AIDS virus continues to plague humanity.) The God portrayed in the bible has been proven by science to be false, as we now know the World was created over a period of billions of years, not in seven days and humanity came to be as a result of millions of years of evolution from single celled bacteria, not in a single day as the bible asserts. Therefore whilst a higher power very likely does exist which could be called God, the "God" portrayed in the bible is a concept created by mankind, used to justify atrocities for 2000 years against "non-believers," (e.g. the crusades) and even people within the church itself who dared to question the divine authority of the church leaders and the tyrant rulers who used the church to justify and protect their absolute power by seducing the masses with a lie.

 
Willard Torres
Jun 02, 2012
0 convinced
Rebuttal
The idea of a God exists solely because the people who inhabit this Universe wished and deemed it so. If no one existed, the idea of "God" would be gone (and the idea of the universe, in a way).

 
Ryan Ashenhurst
Jul 06, 2012
0 convinced
Rebuttal
The idea that God was created by mankind must be true. We have always had God as a species and probably always will. I don't think of God as an old guy with a white beard (The Simpson's God), or even as a superior being from a scripture. I see God as the hole that scientific discovery will fill exponentially, but never fully. We must assume that God was created by mankind on the premise that at some point in history, our ancestors noticed the elements that they could not control (nature) and began to believe that they were controlled by a superior being based on the fact that we knew nothing about the elements. Let's look at why someone may believe that God wasn't created by mankind? Well, they would have to admit that the idea of God did not initiate within the mind of a human being. If this were true, then when did we become aware of God as an idea? No matter what you're religious beliefs, you have to accept that before modern religion, our ancestors that used to pray for the sun to rise every morning and for the rains to be plentiful, initiated the concept of God on the premise of not understanding something.

 
Abhishek Chandan
Mar 02, 2013
0 convinced
Rebuttal
god was created by mankind.we all need someone or something to put our blame or to present it as the answer of some question which are never answerable like who created this universe..why we got a life..why earth revolves around sun.look these are physical ,chemical and biological phenomenon so why we left the answers of these question on the name of god? we need something to belive that why we are here and we find the solution "god".some people discover the god only to rule others people by showing them the fear of god. and if we belive in mythological stories adam and eve are the first human in the world,so who introduce them about god.we already shed so much blood on the name of god and in the question that who is god who is human.so i have the feeling that mankind created god not god created mankind.

 
+ Add Argument

58
No


alosh
Feb 07, 2007
9 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: wigg1es

wigg1es' argument:
"well, you see, there was this little thing that science has come to know as the Big Bang. in essence the Big Bang was a cosmic explosion that hurled matter in all directions."

Reply:
If we assume that the Big Bang theory is indeed accurate:

What caused the Big Bang? An explosion must've been triggered by something? What was possibly there before the existence of the known universe?

-------------------------
wigg1es' argument:
"of course, because we are dealing with forces that occurred 10 to 20 billion years ago, certain things, like the cause of the explosion can never be explained because obviously, all the evidence is gone (after all it was an explosion)."

Reply:
If we have no evidence of how the explosion was triggered then how would this serve your argument? This doesn't disprove the existence of God. Even if that explosion was in fact triggered by some force or action or whatever the direct cause would be we will ALWAYS reach a point of saying what caused that force to be exerted then?

Example: if the explosion was caused by A reason, then what caused A to occur? if B was the answer then what caused B to occur?


My main point here is simple:
Regardless of how many theories we come up to explain how the universe started we are still unable to come up with how the very basic of blocks (Lets say the Atom for now as we are STILL not sure if this is indeed the smallest unit of matter) came to existence?

-------------------------
wigg1es' argument:
"your other examples in now way implicate the existence of a god. you argue that everything was created by something, and this is true. however, your arguments in no way illustrate any presence of divinity. you simply say that everything was created by something, which is a true scientific fact. its one of the first laws of physics; matter is neither created nor destroyed, it only changes form, and likewise with energy. "

Reply:
How did this matter come to existence? The law you mentioned talks about how is that matter can not be created nor destroyed by any means known to US but how did such matter come to existence to begin with? Simply put God created that, whats the evidence to that? The very same logic you agreed to. God is the actual REAL creator, hence making something new out of nothing. The rest is what such creation interact and react with itself forming the universe we know and live in.


If you agree that everything was created by someone and by following UP the chain of "creation" where do you end?


 
adrianpeterson
Feb 04, 2007
6 convinced
Rebuttal
The God of the Bible wasn't revealed in 66 chapters as an "answer to the things that couldn't be explained". Just recently because of all the scientific discoveries of things previously unknown, people are beginning to discredit the existence of God. God hasn't revealed himself as a scientific explanation to nature mysteries. He reveals himself as a comforter, a relational, loving entity that explains why we are here, not how we are here.

Discrediting the existence of God because we've discovered a lot of his secrets in design and nature does not mean that he doesn't exist. We are just "kids learning how dad built the tree house we play in".

Ask science to explain why we cry, love, hate, feel pride, feel guilt, have pain, the reason for vision, the reason for hearing, have a concience, and have a sense that we have to help people.



 
malachovsky
Feb 04, 2007
3 convinced
Rebuttal
god wasnt created by mankind because god is a vague term defined by each individual, but if you ask me.... god is all there is and ever was, and nothing can exist outside of god. you might say that god and mother nature and everything in and around it, is god. man created versions of god , but then again people thought that the world was flat for a long time. what i mean by this is that just because you think you created god doesnt mean its true, what it means is that you convinced enough people to believe in your idea of god, but that leaves the truth in the dirt.

 
palestine4life
Feb 04, 2007
3 convinced
Rebuttal
The exact opposite acctually.

 
alosh
Feb 06, 2007
3 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: nathan

Q.Why the sun rises? A.because the earth revolves around it's axis making it appear so.
Q.What made the Earth revolve in that fashion? A.a force of some sort.
What/who exerted such force? nothing? We might not know yet or maybe we have an idea.

The creation of the universe was triggered by something (or someone?) That is what we call God. God was NOT meant as an explanation of why we die or as substitute for science to research the reason behind how things work, God is the creator of the very basic building block and the rules of the universe of which we live in now.

If you walk by and see a Car that everybody have no proof that anyone have made, would that mean it wasn't built by someone? I mean we didn't see it while it was being built (the same way we couldn't see god creating the universe), The complexity and its fuel, cooling, breaking and A/C system is not a proof that it was made by someone? Something is truly missing. Do you have another explanation than that it was built/created by someone?

Everything that exists is trace of something else that preceded, whether the fact that you are the proof of the existence of your parents at some point. Even if you were cloned your origin cell must've came from someone!

God is simply the beginning and the end of the chain of creation. He was there at the beginning and he will remain after the end. As many things in life, we can not see him nor hear or touch him but that doesn't not necessarily mean he does not exist or a fantasy made by man.

 
brivapor
Feb 04, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
man hasnt created god, maybe someday not yet

 
sloria1
Feb 06, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: w8in

Yes, humans do have the need for a creator, but not simply because we want a half-baked explanation for why we exist.

The existence of a higher mind who created us to be like Him is logical because of the law of human nature. Humans know what is right, and what is wrong, and it is universal and unchanging.

Why, then, are there moral issues, and why does science seem to "change the moral standards?"
Science cannot prove whether God exists or does not because science works by experiments. Science can, however, prove the existence of things in this world. For example: Over one hundred years ago, women in Salem were hanged because they were believed to be witches. We can't necessarily call those people immoral because if we actually thought that there were such nasty witches today, we would certainly hang them. Advances in knowledge have proven witches nonexistent. Morality hasn't changed.

The best explanation for our perception of good and evil is a God.

 
hadak1
Feb 07, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
What I cannot understand is if all this questions lead to one answer “God is the creator” then why I have to think the opposite.

“Any creation has a creator” is proven logic.

Like if I find a book. Then it must have an author. Why I have to think the opposite?!!

Also, “any creation is limited compared to it creator.” This is why we do not understand God because the limited creation cannot understand his creator.

Like the book is full with knowledge but it will not understand the author.

If the limited creation tries to understand the creator then it will fail leading him to many forms of gods thus many religions.

Finally, God is the creator but not necessary what is described by human. He is the one that you can not ask about him in where or when or how since he is above of human understanding.


 
arktick09
Dec 05, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
God was not created by man, that's bullsh*t, but some people don't know any better so never mind, hell, some people probably don't even know that what i just said was an insult. Contrary, to a certain degree i hope some of you have the intelligence to know God was created by God, and he created the heaven and the Earth, and then came along mankind which is also his creation. Read the B.I.B.L.E. which means Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth, so if you have any questions about things you should or need to do before you die, it's probably essential to establish a relationship with God, and read the Bible while he still gives you the chance.

Thank You!!!

 
nikkij
Jul 08, 2008
2 convinced
Rebuttal
peaople are always looking to define something than to let it be the way it is god created mankind stop trying to re-define it

 
alosh
Feb 07, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: ustation Show

ustation's Argument:

"If there was a God, we would all share the same religion. Instead humanity fights over which God shall prevail."

Reply:

The existence of God does not necessarily mean that we all need to share the same religion, the number of prophets that was sent to humanity teach the very same concepts and moral values, yet each was sent to his own people. I don't see religions (at least main stream ones) fight over which GOD is better as which WAY to worship God is best.
There is a big difference.
They all pray to the same God, yet they still are hostile towards one another.

 
bashar
Feb 07, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: ustation Show

If God wanted us all to have the same religion, we would have. But then there would be no reason of judgment day would there.

God have gave us the brain, proofs, sent prophets over the years. Initially, each one was only for a specific area, then came a general religion. Ofcourse some people don't believe it from the first place, some people find it hard to switch to the new prophet, sometimes to personal benefits as well.

So unless you believe we are forced to do everything, you should see it reasonable that we argue.

 
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Is Christianity the only religion you people are concerned with? The concept of God didn't originate within Christianity, and the Christian concept of the omnipotent God is certainly not the most popular from a historical perspective.

Ignore your bias against Christianity and look at the idea of God as representing something beyond human explaination that is responsible for the unique human experience and the startling coincidences of life.

Believing we invented God is a thinly veiled attempt to justify humans natural tendency to want to be in control, to have ultimate power.

There is no way to explain the existence of life, of 'existence' itself, it's such an abstract concept that it is highly unlikely humans will ever fully comprehend it. But something does understand it, something called God.

 
alosh
Feb 10, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: cleesee Show

cleesee Said:

PEOPLE JUST INVENTED GOD TO EXPLAIN WHAT THEY CAN'T UNDERSTAND AND YOU KNOW THAT EVERYONE HAS THOUGHT ABOUT THIS AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER

Reply:

No, I don't know what meant back there.
If you meant that God was invented to explain what is still unknown to us then you must've missed my argument completely. God was used by many to do just that but this does not mean that he was *made up* to do just that!

That would be the same as saying that just because people use self-defense excuse to justify their murders that the concept of self-dense was purely made up for that reason.

I see the confusion stems from the fact that all people define God in their own way when discussing this topic. (This topic have been argued over for hundreds of years as I am sure we all know)

Again, in my argument God is *the* creator of the universe simply put.
The very matter of which the universe consists of was created by him.
This matter of which the universe changes it composition and thus forming different living and none living entities can not run out nor be created out of nothing.

Note: I don't mean be rude but can you please try not to use all caps in your future posts? some people view this as shouting.

 
02andersonm
Feb 11, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
I personly do not belive in a god, but i do belive that it is a good thing to be related to, a faith gives you a purpous, sets down moral rules that no law could do. i do not argue the existance of religion, but i do question where thay get there facts from. forget you know any thing about religion and try to imagen some one, or some thing, some where never to be found, with the ability to controll ever aspect of life... quite frankly i am surprised the creator of the idear of god was not hung for witchcraft.

 
illuminatus555
Feb 11, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: cleesee Show

I agree with alosh to the extent that your argument is frivolous. It's more or less an emotional strawman.

 
illuminatus555
Feb 15, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: csun022 Show

"iytt"


Response:

What a ludicrous spammer. Remove this person at once!!

 
swtlilsoni
Nov 23, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: nathan Show

Just because there is no proof of something, doesn't mean it doesnt exist.

Before Mt. Everest was discovered, what was the tallest mountain in the world? Still Mt. Everest.

And just because we used God as an answer to things we could not understand, does not mean we created Him.

People took Gods name to explain things like the sun rising because we had no other explanation, then after we found one we realized that we did not have to use God's name because another explanation indeed exists.

 
rubberducky
Dec 06, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
god was NOT made by man plain and simple

 
unamed
Dec 13, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
First of all we have to define God as the supreme being that created the universe, this is not a religious definition, I'm not basing this off of any religion, but because we need a definition for God, this is what I'm going to base my argument off of

Ok, so because one can not prove that God is real, the concept of God is then, a notion. However this notion states that the creation of the universe, and anything embodied in it, is by God. Thus God created Mankind. Yet because this concept is a notion, it is thus created by Mankind. Thus the statement made is circular and lies outside the bounds of justification

Because we can not justify this statement, we can not say that it is true.

 
openurmind
Mar 20, 2008
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Ok so god created the universe and god is infinite. I may not believe this statement but those who believe in a god often do.

If this is the case then nothing knew of god's existence but man so in essence man created god.

 
kpen
Mar 25, 2008
1 convinced
Rebuttal
I find it very interesting that the writers of the Bible seem to spend no time trying to prove the things they observed and/or are writing about. They didn't try to prove these things, because they themselves KNEW they happened and KNEW they were real.

It would be like me trying to prove that World War II happened. I wouldn't need to, because its common knowledge that it happened. But, in a few thousand years, maybe they will debate whether or not World War II was real and the only testament they will have to say that it happened was literary recollections (like the Bible is a recollection of the events in history).

 
kpen
Mar 25, 2008
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Also, if God was created by mankind, then God is not a god. The very essence of God is the superiority over mankind.

 
basspro
Sep 15, 2008
1 convinced
Rebuttal
God wasn't created by anyone or anything. God is the supernatural being that created mankind and the entire universe.

 
kafkasrecruit
Oct 28, 2008
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: konakuer Show

What if God just really likes to self-actualize?

 
stiz42
Apr 29, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: alexliu Show

Alexliu, this argument has a few flaws.
It either (a) overgeneralizes-- that because some people give explanations of phenomena by saying “God did it” all people do so. Or it (b) unfairly characterizes people’s belief in God.
Saying that there is a God is not equivalent to saying you don’t know everything about the universe and how the world functions.
In case (a), it is worth remembering that some, but not all religious people use God to fill in the gaps of what they don’t know. Many people form a belief in God based on unexplained phenomena. However, others often form their belief by either studying non-religious approaches to life and becoming dissatisfied with the answers provided or become convinced by the approach and understanding of live provided by religions. Your statement would be made correct simply by qualifying it like so, “For some believers, saying there is a god…
This starts to answer case (b). As mentioned, there are other reasons for believing in God. The term “God of the gaps” describes the belief that when unexplained phenomena arise, they must be caused by God directly (usually outside the natural working of physical laws). As science fills in more and more gaps about how the universe functions, the assumption that God caused certain things to happen is shown false until finally the concept of God itself is shown false. However, there are plenty who believe that God creates and maintains the universe by those principles of physics and matter which are continually being discovered. For some this means that God put the universe into motion an left it alone, putting it together in such a way as to work itself out the way God wanted it to. For others, God still intervenes at specific points but God’s overall handling of the universe is to let it run its course. In either case, explained phenomena are also a proof for the existence of God. Some creationists, for example, say that the universe is too intricate to have happened by chance. This argument can be based on the implied belief that God created a universe which works based on an intricate set of laws. A belief in God does not require a lack of knowledge about how the universe and world work. As I have demonstrated, a belief in God can even coincide with an exhaustive understanding of how the universe operates. Be careful that before you start drawing conclusions about the what believers think about God, your premise of what they actually believe about God is accurate.

Finally I would like to point out that this entire forum is based on the resolution that “God was created by man.” The assumption in this statement seems to be that God does not actually exist, but is a concept basically “made up” by humans. Much of the debate thus far has focused on the fact that “you can’t prove that God doesn’t exist” isn’t a good argument when believers use it to show that God may exist. However, this forum flips the burden of proof onto NONbelievers to show that God doesn’t exist. For the forum to reasonably move forward, more attention should be paid to providing proof that God does not exist, not that reasons proving God’s existence may be faulty.


 
derrickrose
Jul 23, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
He made us perfect... we had everything given to us... we wouldn't die... as long as we wouldn't eat from the tree of knowledge... we are still eating from that tree of knowledge today and it is scaring people into not believing because of a bunch of misshapen theories. We have the knowledge that God didn't advise us to take because it would eventually lead to this argument we are facing today. You will never understand by science but only by faith. He is there whether you like it or not. He has a plan for you but you will not see that plan until you accept that He is there. Until then you are just on the road to the deceiver. That is Satan telling you He is not real but fight it and find reason. Please

 
eman001
Apr 26, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: nathan Show

most science turned out to be wrong god was created by no-one god is and always will be alone
why wont people just accept that instead of making up lies and changing the truth everyone knws god created all

 
mixendixon
Oct 13, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
1. TRUTH ABOUT REALITY IS KNOWABLE - I didn't want to type in all-caps, but since I can't go bold I decided to use that as heading emphasis. So, here is my point. There is absolute truth. You may deny in your head, but do you live that belief? Do you walk towards a tree and say, "I can't know that tree is there, so I may as well attempt to walk through it?" Of course not. Although that example can be considered a flawed in scale or context, it was the first one that came to mind. Anyway, truth is basically anything that declares what is and denies what is not. If you cannot agree to that, then you are too deceived to continue. So, if truth declares what is and denies what is not, that implies that some things are and some things are not. This is the concept of reality. Some things are and some things aren't. In our daily life, we see that, and no contradiction has ever been found. Thus, truth about reality is knowable.
2. THE OPPOSITE OF TRUE IS FALSE - For literally anything you know, you can break down the information further and further until you reach a limit. This limit is based upon some fundamental ideas called the Foundations of Knowledge. One of these happens to be called the Law of Non-contradictions. This law states that (quoting from http://orpheus.ucsd.edu/phenom/old/lawnon.html), "it is not possible that something be both true and not true at the same time and in the same context." Thus, something cannot be simultaneously real and unreal. A block cannot be somewhere and not be in that same place. I cannot be a man and not a man (Aristotle used that example). Thus, if truth is reality, and reality cannot contradict itself, then false is not reality. Therefore, the opposite of true is false.
3. IT IS TRUE THAT THE THEISTIC GOD EXISTS - Ah, the big point. Wait, I thought I had twelve, but this is only the third point. Well, once you see the rest, this point will be further reinforced. Okay, so, since the opposite of true is false, then the existence of God is either true or false. He is either real of fake. Here are some basic arguments:
*Cosmological Argument - If something is, rather than is not, then it must have a cause. See, nothing can be without a cause. This is a basic law of causality. Thus, everything has a cause. However, since the cause was, rather than was not, it must have had a cause as well. Every cause must therefore have a preceding cause, going back into eternity. However, the second law of thermodynamics prevents an eternal past. Thus, time must have a beginning. Since the laws of nature (physics, biology, chemistry, etc) all MUST occur within time, they cannot have caused time. If they could not have caused time, then they cannot have created the universe. Therefore, the universe itself must have a cause. This cause, because of the lack of time, would have to be outside of time and itself causeless. The only possible candidate for such a being is God.
*Argument of Design - Evolutionists love to say that everything is random, and that design is an illusion. However, as we learn by the time we are five years old, "if it looks like a chicken, walks like a chicken, and clucks like a chicken, it's sure as heck a chicken." The same applies to design. Einstein based General Relativity on the idea that is acceleration and gravity manifest themselves the same, they are the same. If the world appears designed, then it is designed. If you'd rather have some harder evidence than logic, I would have to explain to you that the formation of a simple cell by randomness is no more likely than the formation of a working HDTV by randomness. Just research it on a Creationist site. The fact is that evolution is impossible according to biology, probability, chemistry, and all other "stry"s and "ology"s.
*Ontological Argument - By definition, the greatest thing one can imagine is God. However, also by definition, the greatest thing you can imagine must be real, or else you could imagine something greater that is real, and thus it wouldn't be the greatest. But what is real is always greater than what you imagine. Thus, God must be real and must be greater than we can imagine.
*Moral Argument - No matter what you believe about God, you must agree on one thing. Everyone (excluding some psychopaths) begins to feel a tug of right and wrong when they are very young. There are two possible ideas that most people accept:
1) Evolution View: Evolution programmed basic morals by natural selection. This is absurd. For evolution to produce a human is impossible enough, but for it to eventually dish out all the morals necessary for society to function would be insane. As well, some morals seem to contradict self-preservation, which is an evolutionary priority.
2) Creation View: Since the evolution view is false, that means this view must be true. God, who created us all, made us with a conscience. Most of the laws of morality are universally agreed upon. Those which are disputed are usually affected by culture and choices.
4. IF GOD EXISTS THEN MIRACLES ARE POSSIBLE. A miracle is an unexpected event attributed to divine intervention. If God exists, then He can obviously perform miracles. Why? Here are two simple reasons:
*If God exists, He is omnipotent, and thus capable of overriding the natural order ot things which He created. After all, the Creator is greater than the Creation.
*Ever heard of quantum tunneling? It is a phenomenon based on the fact that subatomic particles can spontaneous change positions because of probability. A proton might be one place in one moment, but light-years away the next, even if it wasn't moving. Because God is the Creator, He can control the random outcomes of probability. Thus, by causing significantly improbable quantum tunneling, He could manipulate literally anything without violating His own laws of nature.
5. MIRACLES CAN BE USED TO CONFIRM A MESSAGE FROM GOD. If miracles are possible, then we must next see if accounts of miracles are actually true. So, let's examine contradictions to miraculous account.
*Some say that the witnesses are incredible. They say the people are ignorant, confused, or don't understand science. True, some witnesses may be ignorant, but how often do ignorant people, such as they claim the twelve disciples were, radically change the world? Maybe they were just so "ignorant" that they weren't closed off to the possibility of miracles.
*Others say that miracles are just a basic part of human imagination, pointing to the similarity in miraculous account in all cultures and peoples. However, this could equally indicate that all miracles come from the same source, namely, God.
*Finally, in the New Testament (which will soon be proved true), each miracle had a specific message and purpose, either fixing the broken or otherwise glorifying God, often defeating .
6. THE NEW TESTAMENT IS HISTORICALLY RELIABLE. There are various evidences for the New Testament as an accurate historical record. For one, there is much manuscript evidence. Some claim that the NT has changed much from the original texts. However, there are hundreds of texts from the same time period that agree on the content of the NT. As well, when looking at the original manuscripts, there is a difference of less than 2% in modern copies. The estimated accuracy of the common translations today is over 95%, and the remaining 5% consists of insignificant phrases and typos. Still others argue that the New Testament accounts were mythologized between their occurance and writing. However, a look in history shows that myths generally took at least a century or many more to develop. The New Testament was completely finished within the closing of the first century A.D., leaving no time for mythological development. In addition to that, the Gospels and Acts show characteristics very different from mythology of that time, such as highly specific names, times, places, numbers, and other information; random tidbits of seemingly insignificant events; important roles for several women; and references that ask one to check with the persons mentioned to validate their stories. Finally, several secular historians from that period either allude to or directly recall events in accordance with the New Testament.
7. THE NEW TESTAMENT SAYS THAT JESUS CLAIMED TO BE GOD. Some people deny this, but if you read the NT, you will find it true. For example:
*John 8:58 - "Jesus said unto them, 'Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I AM.'" I AM was the name God gave Moses in the encounter at the burning bush. This is a reference with which His entire crowd, since Jews were required to study the Torah, would have been very familiar with. By saying what He said, Jesus was asserting Himself as God.
*Mark 2:5 - "When Jesus say their faith, He said unto the sick of palsy, 'Your sins are forgiven.'" It was common knowledge to the Jews that only God could forgive sins. It was, in fact, a very fundamental teaching. Anyone listening would have immediatly recognized that Jesus was claiming God's authority (in one instance, the Pharisees blasted Him for claiming He was God over this very type of situation).
*John 10:11 - "I am the Good Shepherd: the Good Shepherd giveth His life for the sheep." The book of Psalms was well-known in the Jewish community. Psalms contained many references to God as a good sheperd.
*John 9:35-38 "35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said unto him, 'Dost thou believe on the Son of God?' 36 He answered and said, 'Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?' 37 And Jesus said unto him, 'Thou hast both seen Him, and it is He that talketh with thee.' 38 And he said, 'Lord, I believe.' And he worshipped Him." Every Jew knew that the Messiah, the Son of God, would be equal with God, and would be God. They believe in the union of the Father and Son. Thus, in this passage, Jesus very blatantly stated His deity. He also accepted worship, and every Jew was familiar with the commandment, "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me."
From this, then, it is obvious that Jesus claimed to be God.
8. JESUS'S CLAIM TO BE GOD WAS MIRACULOUSLY CONFIRMED. If the New Testament is historically reliable, and if miracles are possible, then it stands to reason that the miracles in the New Testament happened. So, then, what were these miracles and what did they mean?
*Fulfillment of prophecy: Jesus' life was unique in that He perfectly fulfilled every prophecy about the Messiah in the Old Testament. This is truly a miracle. Here are some examples:
*Micah 5:2 - "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." This verse says that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem, where Jesus was born over hundreds of years later.
*Isaiah 11:1 - "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots." According to Isaiah, the Messiah is to be of the line of Jesse, father of David. According to Matthew 1:1, that was indeed the case.
*Hosae 11:1 - "When Israel was a child, then I loved Him, and called My Son out of Egypt." This verse prophecies the events after Jesus' birth. Herod seeked to kill Jesus, but an angel warned Joseph to flee to Egypt with Mary and Jesus. Afterwards, Joseph brought them back from Egypt (Matthew 2:15).
*Psalms 78:2 - "I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old." In Matthew and Luke, you can see Jesus speaking in many parables (Matthew 13:35).
*Zechariah 13:7 - "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones." After Jesus' arrest, the disciples scattered (Matthew 26:25).
*Most of Jesus' miracles were miracles of healing. He made the blind to see, the lame to walk, the deaf to hear, and the leper clean. and disease fled His presence; nobody was ever while Jesus was near. Lazarus was risen to life by Jesus' simple word. He restored life and health. He fixed what was broken. He forgave sins. These are all signs with a message. The message is one of life and peace. Jesus came to save the world.
*The greatest miracle of Jesus' ministry was His ressurection. Interestingly enough, there is more evidence for it than any of the other miracles He was said to have done. Besides being documented in the Gospels, it was mentioned in various secular records, and the Gospels actually spoke of over five hundred witnesses, simply so that if people of the day didn't buy the written account, they could go ask those people. It was prophecied in the Old Testament along with the other prophecies Jesus fulfilled, Jesus Himself prophecied it, and the disciples testified to it. Many accuse the disciples of making up their story, but nobody ever allows themselves to die cruel and horrible s for a prank. Yet all of the disciples except John are historically recorded as being executed in some inhumane way. The early Christians suffered the worst persecution the world has ever known. Had the ressurection been fake, they would have given up.
9. THEREFORE JESUS WAS GOD. This part is simple. If Jesus claimed to be God, and He performed many miracles to confirm His claim, fulfilling tons of prophecies, then He must be God.
10. IF JESUS IS GOD, THEN WHATEVER HE SAYS MUST BE TRUE. Why is this? A few reasons.
*It is against the character of God to lie. If God is holy and perfect, then He cannot speak anything false. If He is not holy and perfect, then He is not God. Thus, if Jesus was God, He was holy and perfect, and thus could not lie.
*As well, because God is omnipotent, sovereign, and ruler over all, He could not tell a lie even if His character allowed, because reality would change to His word. The universe was formed by His word, and thus any subsequent words would alter reality to make them true.
11. JESUS TAUGHT THAT THE BIBLE WAS THE WORD OF GOD. Jesus taught many things about the Bible. He taught that it was divinely authoritated (Matthew 4:4, 7, 10, 5:17), imperishable (Matthew 5:18), inerrant (John 17:17), historically reliable (Matthew 12:40-41, 19:4-12), and ultimately supreme (Matthew 15:1-6).
12. THEREFORE, THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD, AND ANYTHING THAT OPPOSES IT IS FALSE. If Jesus is God, and God can't lie, but only speaks the truth, and Jesus said that the Bible is the Word of God, and God can't err (being perfect), then that obviously and logically means that the Bible is the Word of God and it is completely true and inerrant. Since the opposite of true is false, and the Bible is true, then anything that opposes the Bible must be completely false.

 
immy1000
Dec 26, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I agree there is no proof that God is real only the bible and that in itself could be made-up, however I don't feel there is any other explanation of how we as humans and how the earth got here we couldn't suddenly have appeared out of nowhere,I feel now I need to refer to the phrase "what came first, the chicken or the egg" neither could have appeared without each other so how did they appear? Somebody wanted a chicken to come from an egg it couldn't have just happened. Scientists have explained how the world was invented, The Big Bang, but where did we come from, How did the big bang happen? Some of the more cynical of us will ask how was God made, where did he come from, of course I don't know, nobody does for sure all I know is nothing is here by accident and its good to believe there is something else out there, someone that is always with us.

 
trudy12357
Feb 21, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Many gods have been and are still being created by man. But the God of the Bible, Jehovah/Yaweh, is the creator of the Universe by His spoken word alone. Look up the definition of "universe". Uni means one. The word Verse means "A division of a metrical composition, such as a stanza of a poem or hymn. ..." where do you think the word universe came from?

 
alyssanicole
Dec 07, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: keir Show

The Bible is clear on free will. From the very beginning, with Adam and Eve there was free will. How can a religion that emphasizes free will of the human race be centered on control?

 
samsim22
Jan 29, 2012
0 convinced
Rebuttal
God was not created by mankind but rather God created mankind.He created the world in 7 days,of which the 6th day was used to create man.The last day was for him to rest.Genesis chp 1.

 
greenday
Mar 02, 2012
0 convinced
Rebuttal
No-one has proof, and now I think it's turned into an excuse for everything, It's not that I don't think that there is something up there or whatever, it's just that I don't think that god created mankind.

 


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