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Christianity vs Atheism
Religion

w00tpwnage
Jan 15, 2008
64 votes
42 debaters
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30
Christianity


unlabled00
Jan 15, 2008
4 convinced
Rebuttal
All I'm going to say is that this debate is going to make a lot of people angry lol.

 
thales
Jan 16, 2008
4 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jonjax71 Show

I have to disagree--the highest expression of Christianity or any other religion is a transcendently lovely thing.

And the worst interpretation of atheism is...hardly that.

 
asimpleman
Jan 15, 2008
3 convinced
Rebuttal
Christianity vs. Atheism in what? Number of adherents? Quality of life? Value of human life? I'm not really sure what the debate is about.

 
Brett Stubbs
Jan 17, 2008
3 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: w00tpwnage Show

Atheism has no path, no creed, no ethos, no cannon, no accountability, no higher law, and no direction. Which is in the end, more damaging on a personal level. Maybe you need to meet more athiests, and less christians. I have a lot of good friends, and some friends who used to be good friends, that when they turned "Athiest" all it meant was "Freedom" (as they explained it to me), ie I can be the biggest prick, screw as many chicks, break as many hearts, steal as much as I want, do as much meth as I want, act like an asshole as much as I want, without feeling any remorse, because they didn't feel accountable for their actions anymore, or held to a higher standard, or kept from all this "freedom". I know this will get a lot of rebuttals, and I know a lot of arguments will be made that "morals" don't exist, and neither does "evil", and Nietzsche this and existentialism that, but in the end what improvement, positive mind set, hope, or advantage does Atheism REALLY give you? Do you think Atheism will stop war? Or strife? Are you that nieve? You think religion invented war, or murder for a cause? If it's not religion, people will unite on something else. It's what we do. Ask all the people who Stalin killed if atheism is so great. Maybe athiesm was great until people were added to the equation...

 
juggernaut
Jan 15, 2008
1 convinced
Rebuttal
I'll just say I'm Christian, so I don't get ridiculed for having independent though.

 
member4629
Jan 16, 2008
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: vancam Show

But so do Christians.

 
helpme
Jan 18, 2008
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: cruelworld Show

"You're suggesting that a person who doesn't believe in the christian god will do whatever they like with no regard for anyone else, because they have no 'guidance'? That's quite a claim considering only 30% of the world is christian (and only 5% of those are devout, practising christians). How do the rest of us survive, I wonder? "

Your are correct, 5% devouts. So let's look at your question. How do the "rest of us" survive? Just look at any country in the world. What do you see? Murder, rape, ethnic cleansing, wars, corruption, scandal, greed, ect. And, the decay is only getting worse. Most people say that we are so bad that we are literally killing our own planet.
If 95% are not christian or nominal at best, then how do the "rest of us" survive? By the looks of it, not so well.




 
booyakasha
Jan 15, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jonjax71 Show

word.

 
member4629
Jan 15, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I've always been curious of what atheists believe. If they don't believe in anything they really aren't anything within themselves. They are simply not religious. But I would really appreciate someone explaining what they actually do believe in.

I am Catholic and therefore Christian but I've always been drawn to eastern religions such as Buddhism.

 
unlabled00
Jan 15, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Two games created by Ze Frank:

Athiest:
http://www.zefrank.com/atheist/
(walk off the ledge to see the actual humor)

Christian:
http://www.zefrank.com/christian/index.html



(so I DID make another responce.... my bad :P)

 
juggernaut
Jan 16, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: Brett Stubbs Show

That can be applied to all ages.

 
unamed
Jan 22, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
is there a true Christian? is there a true Atheist? What do we define Atheism as? I mean, a lot of people say that they are Atheist yet they all differ in their beliefs etc The only thing that all Atheists have in common is that they're not Christians... Both appeal to different types of people, I don't think we can have a definitive "which is better" answer for this.

 
charlotte57
Jun 03, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
If you people do not believe in a God, or any other form of creation. How did we get here? The plants, animals ect.?
monkeys? how did the monkeys get here
the big bang? who made the atoms to clash in the first place?
you have to believe in something. and is it not better to believe in something and have the risk of eternal salvation or ultimate death then no risk at all?

 
musica
Jul 24, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
In the end every knee will bow and every tongue will confess He is God whether here on earth or after you die i am not saying you have a chance after you die but im saying whether you go to heaven or hell you will in the end glorify God. And dont you dare say God is weak because He
died. He died so sinners could be seen as righteous covered by the only perfect Saviour God in the flesh. Its all in Gods plan everything anybody says or does is in His plan. When you point your finger at God and do what you can to keep people from believing in Him. You thank your working against him your doing exactly what he planned you to do.
Romans 14:11
11 For it is written,
"AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE WILL BOW TO ME,
AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD." NASB
Philippians 2:9-11
9 For this reason also,God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,10 so that the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW,of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father. NASB

 
juggernaut
Sep 21, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: Brett Stubbs Show

I'm not an athiest.
I'm not a Christian either.
I only want our society to accept people of all religions.

 
breannajo
Oct 31, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I think people are in titled to their own beliefs but when you have proof that Jesus Christ lived on this planet. And you have skeletal remains of fish on dry land hello Noah's Ark. And if you look at our world today and read revolutions its all happening.

 
lithium
Oct 31, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: konakuer Show

"We don't make wars and fight for anything =)"

Hmph, last time i checked the Russian Athiest Stalin who was running Russia in WWII killed over 40 million people.

 
jmm
Dec 05, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: cruelworld Show

Atheism has no objective moral standard and this has been amply argued for a very long time and most recently, and compellingly, by the Christian Apologetic, John Lennox who continues to try and teach the likes of Richard Dawkins how the atheist's position is woefully misguided.

Atheists such as Dr. Dawkins have a very difficult time making a compelling rebuttal to the following truths:

Love is taught and not innate. The Trinity is the author of this most fundamental and distinguishing human trait. Since most if not all atheists possess this trait and teach it, they are following the long lineage of humans that espouse this basic truth.

Scientists now acknowledge that the Universe has a definite origin which by definition requires there to be a Designer (we cannot get something from nothing). Life on this planet from the simplest of cells was created. There is no compelling argument that explains the transition from inorganic to organic matter to say nothing about the complexities of nucleic and amino acids! Even Famed Nobel Laureates such as Francis Crick stumble over this issue and rather than consider the obvious (that there is a God who created the Universe and us), advance such thin arguments as directed panspermia which woefully suffers from an infinite regress with no solution unless God is introduced.

 
jmm
Dec 05, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: cruelworld Show

Atheism has no objective moral standard and this has been amply argued for a very long time and most recently, and compellingly, by the Christian Apologetic, John Lennox who continues to try and teach the likes of Richard Dawkins how the atheist's position is woefully misguided.

Atheists such as Dr. Dawkins have a very difficult time making a compelling rebuttal to the following truths:

Love is taught and not innate. The Trinity is the author of this most fundamental and distinguishing human trait. Since most if not all atheists possess this trait and teach it, they are following the long lineage of humans that espouse this basic truth.

Scientists now acknowledge that the Universe has a definite origin which by definition requires there to be a Designer (we cannot get something from nothing). Life on this planet from the simplest of cells was created. There is no compelling argument that explains the transition from inorganic to organic matter to say nothing about the complexities of nucleic and amino acids! Even Famed Nobel Laureates such as Francis Crick stumble over this issue and rather than consider the obvious (that there is a God who created the Universe and us), advance such thin arguments as directed panspermia which woefully suffers from an infinite regress with no solution unless God is introduced.

 
jmm
Dec 07, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: obviouschild Show

Alas your arguments are, as have your most ardent adherents (ie dawkins et al), thin and hollow. If you are a scientist, and I am, then you know that the Universe has a definite beginning and is not infinite as you seem to be implying, You also will acknowledge that more and more scientists, including this one, from physics especially and life sciences are embracing Christianity as the only logical, historically accurate account of the beginning of time as we know it and the objective moral code that culminates with Christ's selfless dying for mine and yes, your sins. Countless followers of atheism, which offers no hope and undermines the moral code, have found their way. You can too: I invite you and others to visit "Fixed Point" or "Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (RZIM) to give a look at the most recent debates on this subject. It's not even close.

If you take one minute and turn to Genesis 1:26 you will read of the Trinity that has existed since the beginning of time. Please do not misinterpret my contention of Love's origin with the Trinity for the birth of Christ, for Christ is/was infinite, one in being with God.

 
jmm
Dec 07, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: obviouschild Show

My Dear Friend,

You are painfully, yet not necessarily eternally, misguided and lost. I will not dignify your emotionally-charged comments which seem to universally typify the atheistic arguments.

I do pray for you and for your move to open your heart and mind to the Way, the Truth, and the Life of Christ.

I am done here.

 
frankiej4189
Dec 08, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: obviouschild Show

Infinite number of chambers and one bullet? I like my odds.

 
jstampley
Dec 22, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
A:) i'm a christian
B:) Most Athens are just confused and don't know what the fuk to believe in
C:)God forgive me for cursing
D:) If there is no God how did the earth be created; how were humans put on earth if the first land mammals were the dinosaurs; how were you created; how were your parents created

 
zerohero
Apr 19, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
1. It requires more faith to be an atheist than it does to believe in the existence of God. At the very least, one would logically be an agnostic and acknowledge that one does not have the necessary knowledge to conclude beyond a doubt that god does not exist. Therefore you'd have to be illogical to claim to be a pointblank atheist.

2. The bible claims that eternity was put into the hearts of men. This can be verified by man's desire to live forever. Or his eternal sense of belonging to something beyond the scope of time.

3. Men have a conscience which testifies to the existence of God. Atheists subscribe to evolution which negates the existence of morality. But since humans are innately and consciously concerned with morality issues for the better part of their lives, this speaks against the assumption of an amoral universe. Evolution doesn't require the thought of morality. So evolution is undermined by the testimony of our own thought processes.

4. When men call "O LORD JESUS!" out loud, God is bound by his word in the bible to respond. Otherwise he would be proven unrighteous. So men can verify that God is real by calling out to him ALOUD and saying "O LORD JESUS!" If god doesn't respond, then he is not real. Since he is bound by his word and his righteousness, he MUST be real and therefore he MUST respond. This alone disproves the atheist position.

5. Atheism is something that one must be conditioned to accept. It goes against the grain of one's being. This is why ALL cultures practice some form of worship involving the concept of God. All the cultures on earth testify to the existence of God.

 
zerohero
Apr 20, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: ryvius Show

1. So you admit finally that failing to believe in something you're designed to believe is completely insane.

2. Completely retarded, irrelevant and illogical.

3. It doesn't. That's a poor logic assumption. And the fact that man worships god testifies to the reality of God.

4. You're a complete idiot and a complete liar. Therefore nobody believes you did anything other than wet your pants.

5. Evolution is a make-believe explanation that idiots like you always fall for LOL without any evidence. You obviously have no clue how the world works, no wonder you sound like such a complete moron LOL :) Just because you're completely incompetent at logic doesn't mean everyone else is as well ;)

 
ernesto
Apr 21, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I cant understand a battle between two teams who dont believe the other teams league does not exist.

It is true to say that this world need believers and unbelievers to function and both their gods clearly exist.

 
zerohero
Apr 21, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: ryvius Show

1. Wrong, fvcking moron. Again: believing in evolution makes you a f**king idiot. No evidence to support it. You're too f**king dumb to comprehend that design is everywhere. People are designed to believe in God.

2. You're too f**king dumb to grasp common sense and reason, which means you're too dumb to be making analogies in the first place.

3. Again, dumbfvck, try to follow the bouncing ball. Oh wait, I forgot, you're too dumb to keep up. No wonder you keep confusing whether you believe in yourself as God other another as God.

4. I like how a dumb faggot like you accuses one of Ad Hom's while you just did that in your first sentence you fvcking idiot LOLOL :) Wow you are dumb! LOLOL! No wonder you can't grasp the logical fallacies you keep making ya fvcking moron :)

5. It seems you're too dumb to grasp the fallacies inherent in evolution, so you cry like a scared little faggot about being attacked. And then you're too fvcking stupid to grasp your own hypocrisy. Are you like 3 years old ya moron? LOLOL :) All the evidence disproves your beliefs, you just have to accept that you're too stupid to realize you have to resort to retarded logical fallacies, which is what you've done, ya fvcking idiot LOLOL :)

Better luck next time retard! :)

 
zerohero
Apr 21, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: ryvius Show

No you couldn't, f**king idiot LOLOL! You just got PWNED! :) lolol. I easily refuted your retarded attempt at logic and made you looking like a fvcking moron. :) Debating you is like debating a rabid squirrel. Piece. OF. CAKE.

 
zerohero
Apr 21, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: ryvius Show

hey dumbfvck, i let common sense and reason decide. retarded kids like you are too dumb to understand the difference LOL :)

 
thevenerablerob
May 01, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: ryvius Show

Good plan. :D

I'm not going to say a whole lot on the matter, but Christianity is a faith that God exists and that he sent his one and Only Son to die for us and save our sins. It's more than religion - it's faith.

It can be proven that Jesus exists. Old Hebrew prophesy states that the Messiah would meet something like 200 qualifications. Jesus met every one of them. I'm no scholar on the matter, so I'd have to look up what all they were, but foremost among them were: An extremely rare bloodline, pierced through the chest without breaking a bone (and surviving), born in Bethlehem etc. Jesus meets every single one of these non Biblical qualifications. The chances of this happening is like 1 to a billion.

Now, lets (keeping this short) take a quick look at Jesus as a person. The islamic religion qualifies him as a good and worthy man - a prophet. However, Jesus claimed himself to be the Saviour. Does that mean that he lied and isn't a good man worthy of being a prophet? I'll leave this question open, though it's my belief that he is the Saviour.

Self proclaimed Christians who act worse than atheists (I know that a lot of you guys have sound morals and good living, so please don't think I'm prejudiced - just couldn't think of a good word short of immoral or criminal) are often just that - self proclaimed. They're hypocrital and talk the walk without actually walking. :P This smears the Christian faith, as many of you have seen. Is there going to be any wish to go to church or believe in God when you see a 'Christian' doing worse than you've ever done? I doubt it. The Bible states that anybody who willfully repeats himself in sin thus turns his back on God. These people aren't Christians unless they change their life.

As for what God can do for you, there are endless things that he can do for you. He will bless you and provide for you (not saying that you shouldn't work for a living). He will care for you and bolster you through hard times. But, of course, most arguments about God are based in the afterlife. Heaven or Hell or the ground and stay there? I think that living and believing for a spot among others in the Mansions on High is better than a fiery eternity or even just being stuck in the ground and not nkowing anything ever after - or living the afterlife as a cow, for that matter.

The one thing that seperates Christianity from any other belief is Faith. Atheists are devoid of faith and technically have nothing to live for (not saying this is always true, of course). Though stats say that Atheists have the highest cutting and suicide rates, I believe. Nothing to live for + depression + difficult times...

I've wound on longer than I had intended. :D

 
akulakhan
Jul 12, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jonjax71 Show

what's funny about that is that your being a closed minded prideful atheist. I guess religion is always the same

 
search4truth
Apr 03, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: cruelworld Show

"atheism is simply an absence of belief"

This simply is not true. Atheism is a a stance that believes God does not exist. Belief is not absent. It orchestrates your every decision and action. Your belief that there is no God is your faith statement. Atheism is based on faith, not science. Through the filters of atheistic belief, one interprets scientific data. Science does not prove or disprove atheistic belief or theistic belief.

"atheism is not specifically non-christian"

In this debate it most certainly is.

"'Why do religious people demand rigorous, empirical evidence as disproof, but require no evidence themselves for belief?"

I don't think this question makes much sense. Perhaps you typed too fast. "Religious people," as you call them, require no evidence because they are convinced by the evidence put forth in the Bible and by the evidence of God's working in their lives.. And further, again, there is no scientific evidence to prove or disprove. Couldn't the same question be asked in this manner - "Why do atheists demand rigorous empirical evidence for proof in the existence of God but require no evidence themselves for their belief that He does not exist?"

"'Why are our modern laws and social values more moral than the bible (regarding capital punishment, incest, age of sexual consent, slavery, and civil rights of women and children)?'"

Ummm. . . what? More moral? By whose standards? Yours? The Bible may include stories and events where things we would call immoral take place, but as a whole it does not condone any such thing. The heroes of the Bible (Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David,etc) are shown for what they are - people who longed to follow after God but were never perfect. The fact that their sins and wrongdoings are recorded in the Bible should demonstrate that the Bible is being honest about the dealings of people and why the cross of Christ was necessary. In the books of Kings and Chronicles, a precursory reading would show that what is pointed out more than anything are the sinful acts of kings who disregarded God and the desire of kings to follow after God - the two are compared. King Omri, under whom Israel grew to it's largest size and influence, is mentioned only in passing because he was ungodly. No mention of his accomplishments because ultimately they meant nothing.

You should read the gospels, at least, before you go making silly comments like that. Obviously not informed. Jesus was a champion for rights. His treatment of women was unparalleled.

Age of sexual consent? The Bible is clear on what is moral in regard to sexual conduct - marriage. Don't get any moral than that, unless all it is about is you wanting to please yourself regardless of the impact upon society. Don't even act like broken homes and single mothers and absentee fathers don't impact society. Consent doesn't make it right and appropriate.

"'Heaven: Wouldn't any intelligent mind go insane if conscious for all eternity?'"

It's questions like this that should demonstrate how the God of the Bible could not be man-made. People all to often try to equate humanity and its faculties with that of God's. Impossible. God and human are not the same. That's like saying that the clay pot is the same as the potter. Ridiculous.

"'The bible: Since it is known and widely accepted that the Hebrew 'almah' (young woman) was wrongly translated into the Greek 'parthenos' (virgin), effectively invalidating one of christianity's foremost miracles, couldn't the other miracles also be untrue?'

This doesn't present a full understanding of the issue. "Widely accepted" by whom? And it was not "wrongly" translated. When you're going to make claims I suggest you look at both sides of the argument rather than rely solely on your preference. In the time in which Isaiah was written, "almah" could mean virgin just as readily as young woman. In fact, during that time, "young woman" more often than not implied virginity.

You fall prey to your own criticism regarding empirical evidence. You have none, yet whine about "religious" people not having any.


 
phelcan
May 11, 2012
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I don't know if this point has already been made or not, but here it is: Do you atheists believe in absolute truths, allow me to explain what these are, an absolute truth is something like "If you rape someone, it is ALWAYS wrong" or "Incest is ALWAYS wrong" (I used these themes as they are easiest to explain with), it is impossible to explain such morals without a set of rules commanded by God. Morals are not based on common belief (racism in the 60's), they are not based on personal opinion, and they most certainly are not based on scientific perception of pain and pleasure, due to the fact that these feelings can only be discerned from each other with the use of absolute truth (Pain is ALWAYS bad). So please describe how absolute truths can function without God.

 
+ Add Argument

34
Atheism


jonjax71
Jan 15, 2008
5 convinced
Rebuttal
even in its worse interpretation, athiesm is far superior to any type of xtianity at its highest from.....

 
cruelworld
Jan 17, 2008
4 convinced
Rebuttal
This is a silly title for a debate.

Firstly because atheism is simply an absence of belief. For instance, just because you don't believe in fairies doesn't then mean that you have to believe in something else to replace that non-belief. In this respect it is not 'against anything', it is not an organisation, nor is it a belief or faith. To describe active principles, there are ideas such as humanism, rationalism, anti-theism or anti-religion.

Secondly, atheism is not specifically non-christian as the title suggests. It is disbelief of ALL 370 creation entities that have been invented by our ancient ancestors so far (including christian, hundu and islamic).

It's nice to note that every theist already rejects 369 of these creation ideas. Atheists simply go one further than the theists. You see, we're not that different! Anyway, more appropriate debates about christianity might be:

'Religion: heavily indoctrinated, or unbiased, proactive choice?'

'Why do religious people demand rigorous, empirical evidence as disproof, but require no evidence themselves for belief?'

'Why are our modern laws and social values more moral than the bible (regarding capital punishment, incest, age of sexual consent, slavery, and civil rights of women and children)?'

'Heaven: Wouldn't any intelligent mind go insane if conscious for all eternity?'

'The bible: Since it is known and widely accepted that the Hebrew 'almah' (young woman) was wrongly translated into the Greek 'parthenos' (virgin), effectively invalidating one of christianity's foremost miracles, couldn't the other miracles also be untrue?'


 
cruelworld
Jan 17, 2008
4 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: Brett Stubbs Show

"Atheism has no path, no creed, no ethos, no cannon, no accountability, no higher law, and no direction"

That's right, because atheism is simply a statement of non-belief in the 370 creation ideas which have been proposed by our ancient ancestors in the last 5000 years. That's why 'atheism' is not a belief or homogeneous group in itself; it says nothing else at all about a person or what they might think, and it does not suggest any alternative beliefs or principles.

However, people who do not subscribe to these ridiculous religious doctrines *do* have guidance from societal values and morals, which are then sometimes embodied in enforceable laws.

I've heard nonsense from believers that there were no morals before christianity. Absolutely false. 10,000 years ago people started agriculture, which meant living together in settlements. Morals and values *had* to have been developed at this point for harmonious living.

Morals and values have been developing in tandem with societies since then. The bible just took a snapshot of morals which already existed well before 2000 years ago. Did the ancient Egyptians and Greeks live in debauched chaos? No, of course not.

I would further argue that modern society is MORE civilised than the bible's morality, with regard to: incest, age sexual of consent, capital punishment, vigilantism, slavery, and civil rights of women and children.

"that when they turned "Athiest" all it meant was "Freedom" without feeling any remorse, because they didn't feel accountable for their actions"

You're suggesting that a person who doesn't believe in the christian god will do whatever they like with no regard for anyone else, because they have no 'guidance'? That's quite a claim considering only 30% of the world is christian (and only 5% of those are devout, practising christians). How do the rest of us survive, I wonder?

Let me put it to you that your friends were heavily indoctrinated with christianity all their lives, and lived in fear of hell and sin. But when they started to question it and saw they had been manipulated and lied to by people they were supposed to be able to trust, that they rebelled against it, causing the behaviour you described. I suggest that without religion, they would be more balanced individuals now.

Humans simply do not need guidance from gods, any more than animals do.

 
shinygreenrobot
Jan 21, 2008
4 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: Brett Stubbs Show

Wow. You have a really skewed sample of atheists.

There's a whole body of philosophy dedicated to defining secular morality. Read some Kant.

I'm an atheist, but if you were to compare my idea of immoral/moral behavior to that of a fundie, you'd find our beliefs are very similar, with a few exceptions:
- I don't think sex wrong
- I don't particularly care about taking the lord's name in vain
- Graven images? Meh.

But the big ones are identical: No murder, no lying, no cheating.

Your ex-friends may have been atheists, but they were also assholes... so maybe you should generalize about the behavior of assholes instead of the behavior of atheists.

If the only thing holding you back from acting like an animal is a passage in a book, maybe it's time to reconsider things... I can give a solid justification for my beliefs about right and wrong.





 
ryvius
Feb 11, 2009
3 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jstampley Show

Likely, most Christians are confused.

Evolution.

 
Brett Stubbs
Jan 15, 2008
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: juggernaut Show

You're 16. If you're mind is made up, and your book is shut about anything at this age, than that's nothing more than having a closed mind.

 
w00tpwnage
Jan 16, 2008
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Atheism I see as the lesser damaging path when it comes down to a personal level. The worst I've known an Atheist to do, outside of a historical context, is break a Christian's arguments down and make her cry. However, I've known plenty of "good upstanding Christians" who have done far worse, more often.

The teachings make sense, for the most part, but then you add people to the equation and it all goes to hell (sorry about the pun)

 
ryvius
Apr 19, 2009
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: zerohero Show

1) Sure, just like it requires more faith to lack belief in the monster under the bed than to believe in it. At the very least, one would have to be agnostic about it and acknowledge it possibly exists. therefore you'd have to be illogical to claim the monster under the bed does not exist.Again: without any evidence whatsoever, belief that something exists is insane.

2) A short story I just wrote claims that you are, in fact, a giant chicken, and that the elephants use their trunks for bungee jumping which makes them longer and longer. This can be verified by looking at elephants and seeing that they, indeed, have long trunks. Therefore, you are in fact a giant chicken.

3) Out of the thousands of gods dreamed up by mankind, how does conscience point to the christian god, specifically? Also, read [http://aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/CE9/index.html]

4) Just did that, Jesus/Christian God did not respond, therefore he's not real. You're plainly delusional.

5) Yeah, even countries in which most people are atheistic or polytheistic? Religions were make-believe explanations that were maybe justified when we didn't know how the world works. Now that we do, sane people have no reason to keep believing in any of that nonsense. So, still no evidence your god (or any other gods) exist. ;)

 
ryvius
Apr 20, 2009
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: zerohero Show

1) No, you idiot. Again: without any evidence something exist, belief in it is insane. There is no "designed to believe".

2) You are unable to grasp the analogy; that does not mean it's incorrect.

3) So you think there is evidence for some god, but not for a specific one? alright then.

4) Ad hominem attack + poisoning the well. Belief in your god seems to make people rather fond of logical fallacies.

5) It seems you are unable to understand either evolution or the evidence for it, so you make up for it by name-calling, and then claim the other side is the illogical one. Of course, when the evidence disproves your beliefs, you have to either accept that you're wrong or resort to logical fallacies, which is what you've done. :)

 
vancam
Jan 15, 2008
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: member4629 Show

I can't speak for all atheists, which in itself is one of the attractive qualities of atheism, but I believe in hummanity and the potential within us.

 
vancam
Jan 17, 2008
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: member4629 Show

Not as a primary. The whole point is the belief in an external source i.e. a diety. I don't, my belief is internal and self regulated. I can then project it on other human beings because I have already assessed the belief I have in my own soul / character etc etc.

 
cruelworld
Jan 18, 2008
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: helpme Show

"And, the decay is only getting worse."

Are you sure about that decline? Reading some history, it all seemed fairly brutal even just a few hundred years ago. People routinely carried swords, daggers and muskets, for instance. These days, only a nutter would take a sword into a pub (remembering that handguns are only used in USA, London, Manchester, and South Africa).

But lets assume it is 'getting worse'. Can you actually prove a causal link between people not being christian and the state of western society? If anything, personally I would lean toward blaming:

1/ free-market capitalism and consumerism
2/ living in large towns and cities
3/ education policies and cuts
4/ MTV
5/ the top 100 super-rich families running the show
6/ prison services that actually provide holiday camp respite

From my perspective, the atheists seem to be the minority keeping the last strands of society together! Having said that, I do see myself as the Omega Man, and everyone else is 'The Family'. Going to the supermarket is interesting.

 
shinygreenrobot
Jan 21, 2008
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: member4629 Show

Atheists believe in lots of things; it's hard to say, since atheism is the absence of a particular set of beliefs, not the presence. It's like asking, "If a person doesn't drive a Ford Festiva, then how do they get places?" There are lots of answers.

That said, there are some atheist organizations which have been chartered to fill some of the traditional niches of religion --- for an example, Google for "Secular Humanism".

One (horrible) preconception that is held by a very small minority of Christians is that, because a person doesn't believe in God, that person must be completely without morals; in essence, that atheists have no sense of right or wrong. This is patently incorrect; they just tend to have morality systems that are grounded in something other than the Bible.



 
obviouschild
Dec 08, 2008
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jmm Show

Just because you cannot refute someone does not mean they are what you believe them to be.

Furthermore, your statements again show your failure to understand atheism. Atheism of course cannot provide a moral system, no more then a disbelief in pixies can. Just because someone disagrees with your religious views does not make them an atheist, it just makes you extremely intolerant and extremely narrow minded.

Christanity, along with all religions and a lack of a belief is nothing more then gambling. An understanding of the giant flaws of Pascal's Wager essentially proves that religion or lack thereof is Russian Roulette with a potentially infinite number of chambers in the revolver. Statements like yours show a clear lack of understanding of the nature of such beliefs.



 
scottydo84
Jan 15, 2009
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Because you either have to believe in the LITERAL interpretation of the Bible or not at all. Reason being is that if you pick and choose what you believe out of it (eg. Believe in Jesus but not Noah's Ark. believe in the existence of Satan but not believing in the Tower of Babel being responsible for the diversity of language in the world) then why believe any of it?

 
ryvius
Apr 03, 2010
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: search4truth Show

Search4Truth asserts: Atheism is a a stance that believes God does not exist.

Let me remind him that the privative prefix (a) signifies without, lack thereof, or absent of. If you are incapable of understanding this sort of linguistics, then free yourself from critiquing the definition of atheism.

Search4Truth asserts: Belief is not absent.

Ah, we have our first dissonance. If he only understood that the privative prefix assigned before (theism) applies as without or lack of theism (belief in gods).

Search4Truth asserts: It orchestrates your every decision and action.

And the basis for this presupposition is the unsubstantiated drivel that atheism is a specific belief.

Search4Truth asserts: Atheism is based on faith, not science.

And the basis for this presupposition is the unsubstantiated drivel that atheism is a specific belief (and scientific). Atheism directs its attention, so to speak, to god's existence, it is explicitly a skeptical position, and to mention the variant of implicit atheism is to say one is not aware of the concept of god's existence.

Search4Truth asserts: "Religious people," as you call them, require no evidence because they are convinced by the evidence put forth in the Bible and by the evidence of God's working in their lives.

I can't make sense of this drivel, because you pragmatically asserted that religious people require no evidential support, because they have evidential support. This is contradictory, if not just nonsensical. And this begs the question, what is the evidential support provided that the Bible is compelling as any reality-based explanations?

Search4Truth: And further, again, there is no scientific evidence to prove or disprove.

I'm afraid our friend here doesn't like to have a logical stance, unless he is willing to rigorously display what constitutes as evidential support. If there is no evidential support for this purported existence of god, what evidential support is there for the Bible?

Search4Truth asks: Couldn't the same question be asked in this manner - "Why do atheists demand rigorous empirical evidence for proof in the existence of God but require no evidence themselves for their belief that He does not exist?"

It even gets worse, our friend here lacks reading comprehension. As demonstrated above, atheism does not make assertions, including specific beliefs such as the purported god's nonexistence. I certainly don't make assert this as my belief. This is what we call a straw man.

 
lightbeamrider
Feb 23, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
You can interpret and extrapolate all that you want from the Bible, Qu'aran, Torah, etc., but when you pull the shroud away, religion was created for the sole purpose of controlling people, for turning free-willed, thinking individuals into mindless machines who could only spit back out what religious leaders had told them. As humanity emerges into this bright and hopeful age, a greater emphasis on thought and reason is important. However, with religion in place, this is sadly impossible since the most basic function of religion was to cloud thought and reason.
Yes, religion has done many great things, but, then again, so has a nuclear bomb blast. In this issue, you have to weigh the impacts. On the one hand, religion inspires. This can be accomplished with Atheism as well. Great speakers such as Winston Churchill and F.D.R., J.F.K., even the contemporary Barack Obama have inspired millions with their words, without once mentioning religion. On the other hand, religion makes people in the Middle East strap bombs to themselves and throw themselves into crowds of innocents, something that is, thankfully, impossible in Atheism.
Additionally, while Atheism has all the scientific evidence in the world, religion has none. Logic, thought, and reason.

 
postfloyd
May 21, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: Brett Stubbs Show

King, it's up to you. You are responsible for living a decent life with no regrets. That's pretty much it.

 
crang
Jun 10, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: Brett Stubbs Show

Atheism gives the choice to be who you want. This doesn't mean it makes you an arsehole or a bad person.

I happen to be absolute proof that Atheists can be good people, and unfortunately my girlfriend's family is proof that Christians can be just as bad as what you say about Atheists.

I have never stolen, done meth (or any other drug), gone on a rampage screwing as many chicks as I can, I've never even been in a fight or hit anyone, or any other horrible thing, in fact I've probably broken less of the Ten Commandments than you. I have a very positive mindset, and always try to see the good side of things. And any wrongs I do make, I do feel remorse for.

My girlfriend's family are all Catholic, and actively follow the religion. Her father is an arsehole, he swears for no reason, he is an alcoholic, is abusive and violent, is a pessimist, and believes he can do all of this without any remorse.
Her brother, although he is under 10, is old enough to know right from wrong. Many times I have seen him torture the family cat, he is violent and lashes out at people without any trigger. He swears like a sailor (remember he's under 10), and has absolutely no regard for anyone but himself.

"Maybe athiesm was great until people were added to the equation" EXACTLY! You've said it yourself, Atheism isn't the problem, it's the minority of people who do wrong things that are the problem.

And yes there is a higher law in Atheism, it's called "if you shoot someone, you will go to jail or someone will shoot you back.

 
konakuer
Sep 23, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
We don't make wars and fight for anything =)

 
obviouschild
Dec 05, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jmm Show

Atheism is merely a lack of a belief in a higher power. You act as if atheism was a unified belief system. Of course atheism has no objective moral standards. Does your lack of belief in pixies have a moral standard? Probably not.

Love comes from Trinity? Really. So you're arguing that no love existed prior to the birth of the Christian faith? That EVERY SINGLE PERSON experienced no love prior to Christanity coming around?

Now I've heard it all. Pray tell, what the hell is Sappho writing about if love wasn't a trait they didn't know.

As for the designer argument, why must there be a designer for an origin? The eternity circuit concept clearly removes such a need. The origin of the current universe was born from the destruction of the last. What once was will come again. Everything repeats. Therefore there is no need for a designer as the universe could always have existed simply being reborn every contraction.

 
obviouschild
Dec 07, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jmm Show

I'm not an atheist. I just disagree with your positions. I see you are refusing to address the pixie issue. Not surprising. And you fail to understand what atheism actually is.

And we don't know if the universe's origin came from the end of another or what it came from. Your belief is nothing more then the God of the Gaps. Second, Buddhism, not Christanity is the most logical belief that fits with the natural sciences. Third, Mr. Zacharias's beliefs are crank as he doesn't even understand the principles of the 2nd law.

If you have anything other then religious posturing, make it. Otherwise, I'm going to pull my fake religious tool to make a mockery of your asinine positions.

 
obviouschild
Dec 09, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: frankiej4189 Show

Or potentially X number of chambers and X-1 = number of bullets.

Not good odds.

 
ryvius
Apr 21, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: zerohero Show

I could take you down here, but I like to settle it here. Accept it.

http://www.convinceme.net/debate/1767/Evolution-vs-Creation-Intelligent-Design.html

:)

 
ryvius
Apr 21, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: zerohero Show

Let the rational audience decide. :)



 
ryvius
May 02, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: thevenerablerob Show

Ha. Ha. Ha.

You sure enough to take that into a one on one debate with me?

 
theaccusative
May 02, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: helpme Show

Are you kidding me? You're joking, right? Please tell me you are Joking.

2000 years ago we were defacating in tents. 1000 years ago we were raping children and having slaves. 500 years ago we were colonising other countries and polluting the environment. 60 years ago we were fighting for minority rights and education funding.

If anything, problems are lessening. And you know what? People 2000 years ago were a hell lot more religious than we are right now. I wonder if that could mean something...?

 
accipiter
May 02, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: charlotte57 Show

You mean to believe in something just because it might be true?
Blindly follow a religion because you have not discovered a plausible alternate explanation.
I grew up with "do because I said so" or "the bible says..."
Does this mean I am going to hell because I believe I should find out things on my own vs. because somebody told me there was a God and I must believe it.

 
accipiter
May 02, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: musica Show

If this is true then you don't really need to be trying so hard to convice us

 
accipiter
May 02, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: lithium Show

I know I may be a bit fuzzy on this point but wasn't there something in history about some kind of Crusades someplace?

 
accipiter
May 02, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jstampley Show

So your confusion about where you came from is proof that I should be a Christian?

 
yoli
May 05, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
"(you can not get something from nothing)" so how do you get god?? I dont know how it is possible that me and you are here living and breathing. All i know is the moment i let go of religon I have been more happier, and peaceful. I cant see my self going back.


 
dkturner
May 20, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: thevenerablerob Show

Thevenerablerob: I have one dispute with what you said. No study I have ever read showed a correlation between suicide and atheism. The rates appear to be statistically meaningless.

On the other hand, this study: http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html found, in a cross-nation examination of the numbers, that national rates of homicide, abortion and infant death DO correlate with levels of professed religiosity. The correlation is positive, in other words, the more people claiming they're religious, the higher the rates of homicide etc.

Now correlation is not causation. My hypothesis is that the cause in this case is improved social conditions (fewer homicides etc.), and the effect is a lessening of religiosity. In other words, the better our lives get, the less we need God.

 
iverson
Jun 07, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Why does it have to be a versus? The two exist and they are both different frames of mind. There doesn't always have to be a winner. The person that asked this question sounds like he's probably a christian trying to persecute atheists. This question only shows the immaturity of religion and how truly closed minded the participants in such cults are.

 
akulakhan
Jul 12, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Who cares? They both suck for being established religions. Choose your own path.

 
greed
Aug 05, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jstampley Show

.... What do A, B, C have to do with anything..? As for D... "God" can't always be the answer to everything... my parents were created from my grandparents and that I am certain of. lol

 
christwarrior
Apr 15, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
That's the one of the dumbest comments I have ever heard.


 
lederereddy
Feb 04, 2012
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I am... Wtf? I can't see the words I'm typing. Not from my iPhone, anyway. Is there a video debate to watch or is this it, we debate amongst ourselves? Anyway!... I read a comment near the top where an atheist stated Atheism as the best explanation for the world, life, everything, etc. but I have yet to hear one single piece of observable evidence for atheism to be true. Can he or one of you present evidence to validate the belief that God does not exist? Or that it's reasonable to dismiss all of the real evidence that He does, as in, creation, life from non living matter, complexity of the life we do observe, the laws of nature as opposed to chaos... What reason do you give for these facts existing even though they are impossible?

 


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