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Remembering the indigenous genocide and slavery victims of the USA
Politics

jonjax71
Oct 16, 2007
7 votes
7 debaters
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2
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6
The US should build monuments in honor of the slaughtered indigenous & victims of slavery this natio


vancam
Oct 18, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: booyakasha Show

Facts? Here's some facts:

I'm not your buddy and American native indians genocide not only didn't stop when you claimed independance it increased as a "national" effort. Where did you learn history you ass? Sean Hannity teach classes now or something?

 
vancam
Oct 18, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: booyakasha Show

Again, allow me to point out the very good reason WHY Africa is so f**ked up. That would be Westertn countries stripping the entire continent of resources, enslaving the peoples and generally treating it like a free-for-all. African Americans are not LUCKY to be off the continent, they are extremely UNLUCKY to have encountered us!

 
jonjax71
Oct 17, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: booyakasha Show

The descendants of those Europeans are the founders of the USA. In comtemporary times descendants of ethnicites build monuments to honor the accomplishments of their predecessors.

Just as there are several memorials to the hideous extermination of Eatern European Judaics during WW2 in Germany, I see nothing wrong with memorials being erected in Washington D C to honor those indigineous pepople whose land was stolen and the tens of thousands that were slaughtered protecting their land, given blankets infected with small pox, placed on reservations and the other atrocites commited against them.

I also see nothing wrong with a solemn monument for the horrors of the Middle Passage where hundred of thousands of Africans lost their lives being transported from the shores of western Africa to various spots of the eastern seaboard and the Caribbean, the survivors being cast into the worse brand of slavery ever known to mankind that was the norm on the mainland USA A period of history that ranks as the ugliest and far worse than what occurred in Germany.



 
vancam
Oct 17, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: booyakasha Show

How convient it must be to take credit for one thing and have Europe as the whipping dog for everything else.

 
gogopoet
Oct 17, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: booyakasha Show

A little scapegoating? Whatever their origins MY ancestors were dirty, low-down, genicidal slave-owners for the most part. Unless your ancestors immigrated after about 1910, it's a good bet they were guilty of supporting afew atrocities too.

 
zanmor
Oct 17, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: booyakasha Show

Initially, sure. However, we were in the business of 'relocating' and killing Indians well into the 1800s, as did we also allow slavery.

 
zanmor
Oct 18, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: booyakasha Show

"Genocide is what Africans do to each other"
Actually, it's the, "deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group," no matter who the culprit is.

Also, I would argue that the problem is not which ethnic groups were or weren't involved in genocide and slavery in 17-1800s America, but the fact that it was sanctioned by the U.S. government. A government advocating the rights of individuals to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness (among this property rights and civil liberties) is advocating policy that involves stealing the property that their ancestors have inhabited for countless generations and killing them if they opposed.

 
booyakasha
Oct 19, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: sandifromlargo Show

sandifromlargo is absolutely right. what good is a bronze statue of some black dude picking cotton going to do? you don't build monuments for things like slavery and genocide, instead you should honor their end. honor what good has come out of the end of these things. build a monument for Lincoln or MLK, don't build a monument that says, "sorry about slavery, black people. our bad! sincerely, white people."

 
vancam
Oct 20, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: booyakasha Show

here you go...

http://www.iearn.org/hgp/aeti/aeti-1997/native-americans.html


ass.

 
vancam
Oct 20, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: booyakasha Show

and according to you they were LUCKY to then be enslaved???



 
booyakasha
Oct 21, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: vancam Show

did you really just send me something written by a high school student? FYI, the UN convention on genocide refused to cover the US, Canadian and Australian (all British colonies, mind you) government's destruction of Indians and natives. Because the government allowed for these people to survive. Don't toss the word genocide around like it applies to almost anything, because it doesn't.

 
+ Add Argument

1
No, it's waste of money to acknowledge the past, it was the necessary price to build this nation.


booyakasha
Oct 16, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
First of all, the United States wasn't even established until after million upon millions of Indians were killed. Get it straight. The Europeans inflicted the genocide.

 
kouunmurasaki
Oct 17, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
I am not trying to be mean or anything, and i dont belive we should forget slavery and all those who died in the past, but we dont really any more monuments. we need homless shelters and health care. and we them now. monuments can wait.

 
gogopoet
Oct 17, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I say no. The US government is not in the monument building business. If, however, an artist comes up with a workable plan for a suitable monument and meets all the requirements for federal funding through one of the available grants programs, then it should be considered along with any other art project for which grant funding is sought.

 
booyakasha
Oct 17, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: vancam Show

It's facts buddy. The US is not going to claim responsibility for the acts of Spain, France, Britain and other European countries just because we're the ancestors or whatever. It just doesn't make sense. We all know who the best genociders in the world are: Europeans. They've been doing it for centuries and centuries. I'm not even going to attempt to name them all, but off the top of my head, I can tell you Hitler, Stalin and more recently Melosivic. Europeans are pros at ethnic cleansing. Why would the US try to steal their crown?

 
booyakasha
Oct 18, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: gogopoet Show

Ok, genocide and slave-owning are totally different. They're both bad, but genocide is completely different. Genocide is what Africans do to eachother, slavery is what we did to them. Kinda makes you think... I'm willing to bet that around half of non-hispanic white americans have ancestors that immigrated after 1900 (half of my entire heritage alone). that means once you add all other minorities (hispanics, blacks, asians, native americans, etc.) you'll find that more than half of americans (or their families) didn't have anything to do with any of this. think about it. don't say ignorant things.

 
booyakasha
Oct 18, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: gogopoet Show

And you act as if the rest of the world was peaceful and civilized at this time. look how africa still is today!!! it's a mess!! in a screwed-up, bass ackwards way, african americans are lucky to be off that continent. it's the worst place on earth, literally. seriously, most of africa is on par with medieval europe. and that sucks. just look at what sitll goes on in africa. famine, genocide, civil war and other hallmarks of underdeveloped countries. ever heard of the country of liberia? former slaves from america went there to establish a country and just look at what it is today. broken!

 
sandifromlargo
Oct 18, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Wouldn't it be a much better tribute or memorial, to build housing for the homeless, feed them, take care of people suffering from spousal abuse, health care for children, hospitals that everyone can afford, or multitudes of other problems that could be solved with this money? You could still memorialize and recognize the people by naming the buildings or the programs after them. We spend millions of dollars on things that could but do not memorialize many people, accomplishments etc, by helping to solve the problems and issues that face us now. For instance, the money to build a memorial for people lost/killed through genocide, could be: The African American Home for the Indigent in Memoriam of the African Genocides. The Katrina Housing Program in Memorial of Katrina Victims. The American Rehabilitation Fund in Tribute to American Soldiers That Gave their Lives. etc. Makes more sense to me than to put up a Stone or a wall, or a monument that says Thanks. See you next vacation to take an updated picture!

 
booyakasha
Oct 19, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: booyakasha Show

Ok first of all, when the United States was formed, there were no genocides. It was war with the Indians. We were at war and we slaughtered them. It's not the US's fault that we had rifles and they had bows and arrows. It was a massacre because it was such an inferior enemy. I'm willing to bet that over 80% of Indian deaths were from diseases brought over by Africa and Europe. And the Europeans were the ones that used biological warfare with their blankets and such. You can't call it a genocide when the other side is waging war as well. You don't think thousands of Americans were killed by Indians? It was a war and they were weak, inferior and hundreds of years behind in military terms. The Indians couldn't even get along with eachother and unite against a common enemy. Western civilization totally and utterly dominated the Indian way.

 
booyakasha
Oct 19, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: vancam Show

And since I'm an ass for making things up, can you please cite the source where you got, "American native indians (whatever the f**k that means...) genocide didn't stop when you claimed independence it increased as a 'national' effort." I'm calling you out, buddy. Show me the facts.

 
booyakasha
Oct 19, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: vancam Show

The main reason for Africa's problems: European colonialists drawing arbitrary borders without considering tribes, ethnicities and cultures. Europeans f**ked that one up too.

 
booyakasha
Oct 21, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: vancam Show

relative to staying in Africa.

 


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