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God, a cruel bastard?
Religion

jjalsop
Feb 03, 2007
55 votes
25 debaters
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31
Yes, he's a cruel bastard.


largecerebrum1
Feb 03, 2007
3 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: Brett Stubbs

I'll argue against an omniscient all-powerful being. All powerful? So why not just stick everyone in a place where they can do whatever they want? After all, is not the goal of everyone to maximize one's happiness? And what could make us more happy than being able to shape our own reality? Okay, so let's say it doesn't maximize our happiness. But being omniscient, this being will know what will. So why not give it to us? Now, I don't know everything, so maybe what we're going through now does lead to maximization of happiness for each of us, but it certaintly doesn't seem that way to me. Just a brief glance at the world and one can see that all is not right. But of course, maybe this is the way it has to be to reach our goal of maximum happiness for some odd reason. From my limited viewpoint however, it doesn't seem the best way, and that this being does not exist, is being mean, or just doens't care. But I can't really say for sure, since I can't compete against an omniscient all-powerful being that for some reason won't explicitly reveal itself to me and assure me that everything will turn out great. Really, a lot of the human race is going down the toilet right now. So I'll have to vote for the cruel bastard part. Really, I'm voting for doesn't care/doesn't exist though. Now that I think about it, maybe life is the thing that shapes who we are, so that when we do get put into our little universe, we'll know what makes us happy. Ah well. Won't know till I get there, if ever.

 
wmr
Feb 11, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
From God's own book the bible.

"I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children." (Leviticus 26:22)

"The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women" (Ezechial 9:4-6)

"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their women with child ripped open." (Hosea 13:16)

"I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children." (Leviticus 26:22)

I think of us would define that as cruel.

 
w8in
Feb 14, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Let me preface this by saying that when I'll be talking about God, I'm talking about the character created by mankind. I do not believe there is a God, but there's certainly a character called God that people have come up with and that they've attributed a lot to.

I've spent the last couple of days with my family, mourning my father's death. We're all at peace with the way he died and the moment of his departure, so that's not an issue.

What IS an issue is my Alzheimer-stricken mother, constantly crying like a little child, not recognizing us, being afraid of us, thinking she's the little girl she once used to be, and not being fully aware that the man who was lying there was not a sleeping stranger, but her deceased husband of 51 years.

If God can be thanked for saving someone's life or whatever crap we want to attribute to him, it can certainly be said he's a cruel bastard for doing this to our family. I'd challenge anyone to discuss their way out of this and convince me he's not cruel.

 
jjalsop
Feb 03, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
According to the Bible, God knows everything.

Your past, your present and your future.

THEREFORE he KNOWS that some people won't become Christian and go to Hell.

God knows your future, so he knows you're going to Hell.
So why is he a cruel bastard?

Why let us live a life if you're just going to send us to Hell anyway?



 
wooster
Feb 03, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: Brett Stubbs

Your examples of Christians donating to charity has nothing to do with God at all. At worst it's people doing charity for bad reasons, at best it's a placebo effect which makes people want to give to charity. These since of morality of good are human reasoning, God need not be applied.

The Christian God is not the same as a Muslim or Hindu God(s). One of them has to be right the other has to be wrong, the price is eternity in hell. You may very will face this consequence toward Allah. Lets not ignore this. If God tortures his children for simply not believing in him, it is cruel. No one deserves to be eternally tortured for a simple disbelief.



 
ltdanjumbo
Feb 04, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: xander

Imagine having the ability to create little simpleton creatures where you give them free will to believe in you or not.

Those that believe in you will be gathered up and taken to a nice place where you feed them and give them unlimited love. The ones who don't believe in you are left alone where a pitbull will come and get them and torture them endlessly.

You have the power to stop the pittbull. You have the power to create simpletons who have free will that will "just happen" to always believe in you. You have the power to delete the simpletons so they just cease to experience rather than subject them to the pittbull.

How are you not cruel if you can stop the suffering and choose not to?

PS, Don't give me this "We can't understand His purpose" bullsh*t. It's a cop out so you don't have to be accountable. It's like me telling you, "I have absolute proof that God doesn't exist, but I won't tell you because you'll never understand it so you should just trust me."



 
wooster
Feb 05, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: Brett Stubbs

Your example was using Christians specifically as if normal people don't do charity. I will give you the fact you didn't list donating to charity. My main point still stands. Being a Christian has nothing to do with committing kinds acts. Again, these are bad reasons or a placebo affect. Non-christians have no problem doing kind acts.

The God in the bible isnt a vengeful God! Sir, have you read the bible? Seriously, God destroys the tower of Babyl because it was getting too close to the heavens. He floods the whole earth (for who knows what reason) and destroys sodom and gomorrah for the villagers being sinful. Do I really need to move on to the ten commandments? The killing never ends. I will give you the New Testament takes it alittle easier but no where does it say the Old Testament is to be completely forgotten. In fact, In the NT Jesus says the OT is to be obeyed for every word.

My statement of Christian God not being the same as Hindu, or Islam still stands true. There are still billions of people who don't believe in the Christian God. They will be in hell to be tortured. Do you really need me to quote that from the bible? I can see how it's not a cruel God to you, because given your beliefs you will be in heaven, you are too arrogant to even care about us pagans or infidels burning in hell. What's that you said about charity before?






 
1 convinced
Rebuttal
If you really read the bible you would soon see how much of a cruel, heartless, bloodthirsty monster "god" is.

 
jjalsop
Feb 03, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: Brett Stubbs

The people that have never heard of Christ go to Heaven... but you can't stand there and say that God doesn't create people knowing they're going to Hell.

We're talking about God according to Christians, by the way.

 
wmr
Feb 03, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: Brett Stubbs

So "God knows our future because he knows us" in this I assume you mean he knows the future of those people brutally maimed by traffic accidents, the pain they will suffer from prolonged illness such as cancer etc. Even though he is "all powerful" and could stop this he chooses not to, Surely by any ones defenition that is cruel. If knew my child or dog was to suffer a horrible injury and pain I would stop the action, not to do so would be cruel.

"This earth is a proving ground. To be physically tested." So we are placed on this earth to be "physically tested" is this almost like rats in a lab experiment, some people consider deliberately putting people in a situation where they will suffer pain, is cruel. So once again God is cruel.

After many years of earthly existence it was only 2,000 years ago that god sent Christ "..to come to this earth to give his Gospel, fulfill the law, to Atone for the sins of this earth, and to be resurrected." Remembering that "God knows our future because he knows us" so knew from the beginning we were going to become sinners, he waited many generations before he sent help. You could go back to creation and enevn though God knew what was going to happen, he still put the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Eveil in the garden of eden knowing his instructions were not going to be followed and as a result he would kick adam and eve out of the garden and pain, disease etc would be inflicted on his creations. Again many would call this evil

Sorry for me out of your own arguements you proved to me God is incredibly cruel.

 
largecerebrum1
Feb 03, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: Brett Stubbs

"You can't do what you want? What can't you do? The point is you can do whatever you want. If you wanted to go to your window and jump out, you can."

I can't create a nicely done steak out of thin air.

"Making bad choices, and suffering their consequences is the way to find out the difference to what gives us pleasure, and what makes us happy. For most people it's the only way."

Most people, but I think know now what would make me happy. I don't think people need like 80 years to discover that. And of course, we could get around this by having a magical box thingy tell us what would make us happy without having us be unhappy first.

 
jjalsop
Feb 03, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: soundsdifferent

I'm not going to even go into how stupid that sounded.

 
jjalsop
Feb 03, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: Brett Stubbs

I honestly don't see what people aren't understanding.

God makes people.
God knows everything that will happen.
With this is mind, God knows people will go to Hell, before he creates them.

Take me for example, I'm going to "Hell".

 
ltdanjumbo
Feb 04, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: somerandomhobo

You are currently breathing. Therefore, God is granting
you more than any of us ever deserve.

I know you think you're being profound, but I'd love to see you say that to some parents of a very small child or baby who's suffering from some horrible disease.

Tell them they should just be thankful their babies are breathing because God is granting them more than they ever deserve.

Bet it wouldn't be so profound, would it?

What gets me about you is you're not even being original. You've put no thought into what you're saying. You're merely parroting something you've heard. (If I had a nickel every time I've heard something with similar sentiment)

Stop repeating what people say and start questioning everybody and everything. Use your brain and stop letting people think for you.

 
wooster
Feb 05, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: xander

We understand free-will. It is like a father having a disobedient child. He will punish the child for making wrong choices. We all understand this. The cruel part gets involved when discussing the punishment for our choices God disagrees with. For example, If my child told me I am not his father, I would be very upset, I would probably ground him. I would not, however, lock my child in a room full of fire to torture him for eternity. The latter is what God will do if you are a disbeliever. I am getting annoyed how so many people can twist this into God loves you, but you made the wrong choice. Compare your God, to the thousands of other Gods people believe in, it is clear you stand just as much of a chance of burning in hell as I do. While we are both there Im sure there will be no debate how cruel it is.

 
tggdan3
Feb 07, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
God is omnsicient.
God is omnipotent.

God created me with the INTENTION of me going to hell one day. He knew what I would believe in and made me anyway. He knew what would convince me of his existance and he chose not to show it to me. Then he blames ME for this and sends me to hell?

How is this different from me having a baby, then putting it in a cage with a bear, knowing the bear would destroy it. Sure, I put a tazer in the cage too, and if the child CHOSE to use it to fight off the bear it might survive, but I knew he wouldn't. He could have though- so it's his fault.

 
tggdan3
Feb 21, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jcmyboy Show

God made every chemical in my brain and every piece of my fibre. He knew ahead of time i would go to hell, and he created me the same way. I had no free will.

Free will denotes an unwritten future. Free will can not exist with an omniscient and omnipotent being. All that happens only happens because he allows it to happen. If he's also the creator, then all that happens only happens because he CAUSED it to happen.

I am no more free to change my destiny then the egg that I drop onto the floor can slow it's descent. But who do you blame when the egg breaks? Me for dropping it, or the egg for falling?

 
tggdan3
Feb 28, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jcmyboy Show

Think of it this way.

1) God is omnipotent
2) Got is all knowing
3) God created me.

Thus god created me knowing I would go to hell.

Now, do I have the power to contend with God's will? If I do, then god is not omnipotent. If I don't then I don't have free will. The choice was already made for me when I was created.

 
wraths
May 11, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Look at how many natural disasters he had created. In the old testament we are told that God would send earthquakes and natural disaster to those who do not believe in him or worship other gods before or after him. He would also demand people who work on Sunday to be stoned to death as it does not respect him. The bible even clearly states that God is a jealous God. If he has a human mindset and alike characteristic like jealousy, what makes him greater than us?





 
stevesvindication
Jun 18, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
god is a cruel bastard with little mercy for anything but himself! Even christ was rebuked by this scoundrel on the cross. This god the all merciful created the devil himself so he is accountable for all this christian belief that the devil is to blame. If this is true then god is accountable for creating this supposed monster in the first place...what a stuff up that is! he is suppost to be perfect! he sees himself as a jealous god and then tells us about the evils of vanity. Anyway who in the hell wrote the bible? they say its gods word I say this is hogwash total balony that the book has many authors that are clearly stated. Moses wrote the first several chapters as did Solomon and all the other noted authors. Matthew, john luke, mark. timothy and others wrote the new testament and john the revealer did the apocalypse! So where the hell did god put pen to paper? What a load of bullsh*t it is. We have scholars, priests and clergy that cant seem to identify authors and attribute the book on the account of god???
Like i said if god is the true creator then he is responsible for all the evil in this world accompanied by his perfect creation the devil himself. he should discipline this so called demon or is he pissin in the wind. This is a bit like where god creates a nuclear bomb then passes it on to his mate the devil who then detonates it and everyone blames the detonator for the mass destruction and loss of life, isnt god then an accessory to this destruction? god temps adam and eve with food in a bloody garden and then bannishes them from this garden for not knowing any better and what sin isin the first place? bloody idiot if you ask me. Why should a woman have to bleed every month after that? he is a bloody moron that he himself delivered them into temptation. and how the hell did a snake walk before this event,,,upright and now is made to crawl for the rest of its days. children born deaf and blind and other illnesses whats that about? is this just? for me this god is hell hes ignorant cruel and all the other goodnesses. bloody hell what am i saying he does not exist and for the devil he can go to heaven. these two warring partners should face up to each other and leave the human race out of it. if god and this supposed devil do exist they should show some courage and press that detonater and blast themselves to a place they can call their own. then they would be at peace at last and leave the innocent to lead prosperous healthy lives with no pestilances, or other horrid evils.

 
coherent
Aug 25, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jcmyboy Show

If you take the notion that there is an entity that is "god." The idea of freewill amidst the backdrop of suffering (suffer onto me little children) is akin to madness. It has the sensibility of "love me or else."

If there was such a character as this maniacal "god," he would certainly not be able to fit the standards of his own laws.

A belief in such a character is an identification with an icon that matches one's own character traits. The Christian god is an icon of hatred attempting to disguise itself in a bundle of "love." This icon doesn't jive of course with those of sound mind.


 
coherent
Aug 25, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: fish Show

Faith is another word for gullible or even denial.

When one isn't willing to do a coherency check on the character of a god that has an obvious split personality featured in a man made book filled with contradictions, that borders on mental illness.

Btw, how does one separate faith in The Tooth Faery or that of "god?"

Why do some not apply this "faith" evenly to other questionable characters as well?

Social programming? Fear mongering? Lack of Reason?

 
coherent
Aug 25, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: mcgheeworld Show

The principles that the character Jesus taught, were among men long before the Bible attributed them to him. To attribute "kindness, charity, humility," to Jesus is like attributing singing and piano playing to Elton John.

Other "real" beings have taught all these things and more.

As far as hedging a bet on a fictional entity so as to avoid eternal hell fire and suffering at the hands of an "all loving daddy god," well I think the oxymoron is kind of obvious, but apparently some of "god's children" aren't seeing it.

What I see in this line of thinking is a delusion based on fear. Better to kiss up to an ogre god than to be tortured forever. Both of these notions are similar anyway.

 
coherent
Aug 25, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: soundsdifferent Show

"god gives us a chance on earth to find him to become freinds with him. "

With a dabbling of suffering and torture and a carrot leading out of the maze. Love me or else, and even while you choose to love me, you will endure my little tests.

"god does not send you to hell.
the devil does."

Actually god does through an entity he gives power over man to. It is like if your father says to the mean kid down the street, if my son doesn't mow the lawn today, you have my permission and blessing to beat him senseless.

 
coherent
Aug 25, 2008
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jcmyboy Show

"And he doesn't blame you for this, he blames sin (I said this in my last argument). God wants everyone in Heaven, but if you are full of sin you can't get into Heaven."

Then by his own standards, how does god remain in heaven being the ultimate sinner of all? Is it because its his game and he can do however he pleases? Make up rules for his slaves to follow but not adhere to them himself?

This god is a master of suffering and torture. Oh yes but he's loving. ;-)

How is it that when Hitler commits genocide, he goes down in history as being one of the worst beings of all time, yet the entity that created him, allowed all of it to occur (really key in on that one) and has done similar or worse himself (old testament is full of such stories), escapes similar judgment.

All that is offered up to the fact that this "god" character is like a million Hitlers, is "he created us so he can do what ever he likes."

But "he" loves us. ;-)



 
yoli
May 05, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: Brett Stubbs Show

so your saying our whole purpose on earth is to learn right from wrong.
I'm not even going to argue about that.




 
trespen
Jul 04, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
If God is a cruel bastard, because he lets terrible things happen, then he (presuming we're talking about the monotheistic God of Christianity, Islam and Judaism) is also utterly good for letting waterfalls, dolphins and blue skies (and chocolate) happen too. So, to say that he's 'a cruel bastard' just doesn't get all the facts in.

 
bikram
Sep 19, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Everything I've gotten, He's torn away from me. I'm losing Miranda. Therefore, God is a cruel bastard.

 
tortured
Aug 02, 2011
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I spoke to god he is really ungrateful and cruel oh and btw there are hundreds of gods all claiming to have created the world there are just really powerful people who got ego problems and well too much power you know.. despite what you might think after alot of suffering, like i got so much of that my heart literally stopped and i hate seizures and it was immense emotional pain hurts worse then any physical pain. I know one god that sounds like a sissified wanna be tough gay bashing chicken, and anothother who talks about devoution to charity... the charity is always perverted and he steals and consaiders it a virtue when he does it.. the point i am saying is that if you suffer too much for a good cause you become a god, and a gods influence is like a celebrity. God tortomented me physically and mentally for "the poo-man" it was horribly disgusting, even though i had donated to them while i was strong the minute i got weak he was evidently there, i saw all the proof of that coward and he called it poor mans revenge even though i was the one who was poor and all the "poor people" were now better off. Ever since then i have been disgusted by the publicly accepted poor(i f ind the things that are really poor, like a plant that just wants water but does not get that and would never devour me if i was weaker then it), infact most self loathing and pity calling poor people are wicked beasts biting the hand they eat from willing to sell their own benefactors organs to get to the top. and god is a big worthless beggar waiting to sacrifice his own followers to gain favor of his other followers he IS EVIL. He needs to be put down by science especially SAturn(which is the god that muslim and christians worship).


My opinion is God and he is a big dirty bigot who loves a certain kind of people he calls "The poor" and he deserves to face justice for the betrayal of his followers. Filthy treachorous tyrant who wants everyone to know him.

 
+ Add Argument

24
You're so going to hell...


Brett Stubbs
Feb 03, 2007
5 convinced
Rebuttal
There's a lot of "God does this", "God does that" or "God is like this" and "God is like that". But really it comes down to misunderstanding the nature of God. You can't disprove the existence or nature of God just as I can't prove it.

Every religion has a different ideal of God. Could he be the same God for all of them? SO what God are you arguing against? Which Christian God? Every Christian religion believes in a different nature of God.

This debate is dependent upon the assumption that if you're not Christian you're going to hell. There are lots of people out there who love to tell people that they're going to hell. I'm from the south, ie, I've been told by a lot of people that I'm going to hell.

But as far as your argument is concerned, it's like this. God knows our future because he knows us. Some religions believe we existed long before we came to this earth. Therefore God knows our character and our situations, which are all taken into consideration. Do you have a dog? A kid? It's the same thing, just much much less time to know them. But you know what they're going to do before they do it, but you can't actually exercise justice or mercy, until the act has actually been committed. You also know that every one of your pets or children is different, and will make different choices depending on character, the situation, and their upbringing.

This earth is a proving ground. To be physically tested. Not tested to know Christ, as the majority have never heard his name. But to choose good or evil. Christ's purpose was to come to this earth to give his Gospel, fulfill the law, to Atone for the sins of this earth, and to be resurrected. As the Son of God, and being perfect (as in not sinning) he was the only one who could perform this act. An atonement that covers not only sin, but physical, emotional, and mental pain. People worship Christ not only because He is the Son of God, but because we believe that he can heal us on all spectrums of life, including sin by repenting: which by definition is change. We make ourselves better people, and that's what it is about.

As stated previously, to any logical Christian, you must recognize that the vast majority of people living on this earth have not been Christian and have never heard his name. But we know that many of them as well were great people. Does this mean that they are going to hell? No. Does this mean they will never know Christ? No. Their first meeting may be at the judgment bar of Christ, upon which time they may become a believer. He will judge our hearts, not what we said we were on earth. There are many people who's mouths proclaim they are "Christian", but there heart lies somewhere else.

To be Christian is to have charity, or the love of Christ. Religion has used Christianity for their own purposes, but his message stays the same. Do good to everyone.

Have you noticed other cultures who teach that golden rule, yet are not Christian? Buddhism, Islam, Hindu, ancient Greek philosophers, or even much older religions. They came from the same source of good, and have governed the morality of societies. Yes many have been used as a tool in the hands of evil men, but their principles are really the same. That I think is no coincidence.

The God I believe in is not what you say He is. It's just your lack of understanding of Him int he way I know him. But it doesn't offend Him either. He gave us our brains to come to our own conclusions. Mine may infact be wrong, but it's just the one I've thought out.

Plus what's your definition of hell? Technically hell is nothing more than the place where God does not dwell. The only fire and brimstone is taught to those who would feel remorse/sadness living without God by sinning (willfully rebelling against God). If you don't believe in God, then don't worry about it. If you think you do, then try communicating with Him, or feeling if He is there and see what happens. If you feel he's not there, then what's the big deal? I think he just wants us to think about it.

This debate is always painted so black and white. In fact you have prepared for it, by naming the opposite position "you're so going to hell". I don't think you are, because no one has the right to tell anyone they are, because no one knows your heart. So if I vote for this side, consider it "You're not going to hell, but God is also not cruel."

 
Brett Stubbs
Feb 03, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: largecerebrum1

"So why not just stick everyone in a place where they can do whatever they want?"

You can't do what you want? What can't you do? The point is you can do whatever you want. If you wanted to go to your window and jump out, you can.

"Now, I don't know everything, so maybe what we're going through now does lead to maximization of happiness for each of us"

Making bad choices, and suffering their consequences is the way to find out the difference to what gives us pleasure, and what makes us happy. For most people it's the only way.

"Now that I think about it, maybe life is the thing that shapes who we are, so that when we do get put into our little universe, we'll know what makes us happy."

You are exactly correct.

 
Brett Stubbs
Feb 03, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: wooster

"Your examples of Christians donating to charity has nothing to do with God at all.At worst it's people doing charity for bad reasons, at best it's a placebo effect which makes people want to give to charity. "

I have no examples listed. And most believers would say those who do it for the wrong reason, they have their reward. I didn't say donating to charity. That's what the word charity is often described in our generation, but charity itself is no more then doing kind acts.

"The Christian God is not the same as a Muslim or Hindu God(s)."

Not true. Some see God as a vengeful God, others see him as loving. No such thing as the "Christian God". All Christian Sects believe the nature of God to be different. That's why the Reformation occurred. Martin Luther's concept of God was much different from the Catholic one.

"If God tortures his children for simply not believing in him, it is cruel. No one deserves to be eternally tortured for a simple disbelief."

Once again, premised on the dark ages POV of God and of Hell. The one the Catholic church used to scare the population into doing what they said. If hell is being separated from God, then I think most aethists wouldn't mind it.


 
Brett Stubbs
Feb 03, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jjalsop

"but you can't stand there and say that God doesn't create people knowing they're going to Hell."

But not of his choice. He is bound by law. He is giving us the opportunity to move beyond. Free agency (choice) is another Eternal Law, meaning another law God is subject to. Most Christians have just crapped their pants from me saying that. 1/3 of the hosts of heaven said no thanks before we ever got here, and never came. And maybe some people said, I'll give it a shot, or they thought it sounded like fun. Earth was the first time we experienced pain, and from being able to compare the opposite, the only time we could realize what joy is. I believe we were created long before we came here. This was just another step in the process of evolution. To become something better. To be tested. To experience choice in a physical body. And once again, hell only becomes hell if you know you missed out on something. If you never thought it was going to work at all, then no biggie.

"We're talking about God according to Christians"

Just wondering though, which Christian religion were you thinking about when you started the argument? That's all.

 
patternjuggler
Feb 03, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
God does not exist.
. : not cruel

 
soundsdifferent
Feb 03, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
so i see your point that the resone is you say god is crule god nos every thing. ill get to my point quickly.

if god knows where going to pray to him why should we.
the answer is if we dont gods knows that where no going to pray to him?

ha?

well god knows that you as a person is going to go to hell or not.

but if he does not put you on earth he does not know if you where going to go to hell or not.

so in the bible it states god knows the the past, the present and the future.

if you kick the ball god knows where the ball will go.
but he does not know where the ball would go or what would happen if you did not kick the ball.

if he did not put you on earth he would not know wat would happen to you if he did.

seems youve been stateing from the bible i will 2
god father of jesus is a god of love and forgiveness who does never want anything ever bad to happen to us i would be saying if i was you by your own sin snding yourself to hell not by god



 
Megh
Feb 03, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
I think God exists, but don't make us vote that people are going to hell. That just doesn't feel right...I almost couldn't vote. Who do people think they are when they say that?

 
soundsdifferent
Feb 03, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jjalsop

if god was not to put us on the earth he would not know wat will happen to us.

god gives us a chance on earth to find him to become freinds with him.

with this relastionship with him we go to heaven.

god does not send you to hell.
the devil does.

 
Brett Stubbs
Feb 03, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: wmr

Even though he is "all powerful" and could stop this he chooses not to, Surely by any ones defenition that is cruel."

So God should make everything really simple for us? No trials, no afflictions? What would we learn from that? And before you say what can you learn from afflication, the answer is a lot. You can come closer to someone in affliction, then any other way. It makes you humble, it makes you remember that you need other people, etc. And if you succeed over your afflictions, you come to appreciate life. Ask any cancer survivor, or car accident survivor of their experience, and they will tell you how much they appreciate what many take for granted. It is a time for personal growth, and inner reflection. As far as those who die from these events, it was their time to go. Death - to the believer is not as terrible as it seems. Everyone will experience it. Everyone will witness it. If you believe in an afterlife in any form, then it is a release from our temporary state, into a limitless existence.

"he waited many generations before he sent help" - the atonement is believed to be everlasting. Covers all time before and after, therefore he could have come at anytime.

"Tree of Knowledge of Good and Eveil" - and what was this tree? to know pleasure and pain, vice and virtue, etc. They partook of the fruit, to know the difference between good and evil. That's not cruel. You can't know good until you know bad. If everything was good, then good wouldn't exist. It needs its opposite. If not, they would have forever stayed in the same state. Never changing.

 
somerandomhobo
Feb 03, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
You are currently breathing. Therefore, God is granting you more than any of us ever deserve.

 
xander
Feb 04, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: jjalsop

When God creates you, yes, he knows your eternal destination. The difference is, it is your choices that take you there. You have the free will to do what you wish and believe what you believe. God is all knowing and he is benevolent but he will not accept anyone who does not follow the plan he set out. It is your choices that determine your eternal fate. God wants no one to perish but he gave you the choice to decide.

 
jcmyboy
Feb 20, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: w8in Show

I'm sorry that your family is going though all of this, but God isn't cruel. Sin is the reason this is happening. Because sin was introduced into the world, these bad things happen. If there wasn't any sin, then the world would be perfect. If you think God is cruel because he didn't stop all of this from happening, then you are ignorant. Why should he help us, what have we done to deserve Gods grace? Nothing. I dont mean to be mean, and this probably isnt what you want to hear, but its the truth. Once again, I'm sorry for your family.

 
jcmyboy
Feb 20, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: tggdan3 Show

No, God didn't create you with the intention of you going to hell. It is your choice to believe in him. I believe that choice breads fate, if you believe in one thing then your destany will lie there also, but if you alter your choice then your fate will change. And he doesn't blame you for this, he blames sin (I said this in my last argument). God wants everyone in Heaven, but if you are full of sin you can't get into Heaven.

 
jcmyboy
Feb 21, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: tggdan3 Show

I believe that a persons life decideds his fate, I dont believe that a persons fate decides his life. And yes God did give you the chance to find him or reject him, and you still have that choice, you just choose to ignore it.

 
mcgheeworld
Feb 28, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Like I've heard before... It's better to believe and be right, than not to believe and be wrong. Whatever the case, Jesus claimed to be the SON of GOD. I believe that. With that in mind, Jesus' teachings cannot be denied as the proper way to live here on earth. He taught kindness, charity, humility, etc. Can anyone say that is not the way to live. If you can say living a life of opposites to what Jesus taught is the right way, more power to you. Good Luck! I just feel if more people focused on adhering to the principles Jesus taught, this world would be a much safer place.

 
mcgheeworld
Feb 28, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: wooster Show

Wrong! The New Testament speaks of a loving, caring, forgiving GOD. That's why Jesus came here, to express his love to the world as the SON of GOD. GOD didn't like how his creation was working out here on earth. Which is why he destroyed all living beings. You just don't understand, the spirit is different than the body. Of course you wouldn't put your child in a room and let him burn for eternity. Neither will GOD. But, he will deny those who have openly denied him.

 
mcgheeworld
Feb 28, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: w8in Show

First let me offer my condolences to yourself and your family. I've had certain tragedies in my life and they are extremely painful. However, they have shown me how sudden ones life can change and how we are never promised tomorrow. Death is part of life. I began believing in Christ based on a smaller tragedy. My healthy 30 year-old neighbor died of a heart attack and left behind a pregnant wife with a 6 yr. old daughter. I say smaller because it's not like I knew him all that well, but his daughter played with my kids on a regular basis. I felt horrible for that little girl and his death effected me. It scared the hell out of me. If you want to know the truth, as much as I have been through, I am the one that nobody would be surprised of my death. Seriously! For some reason his death led me to wanting to know answers to why these things happen to such good people. Nothing I say will make you a believer or make you feel any better about your current situation. That's okay I understand. I just pray that you and your family find peace.

Life is a serious matter. Sadness reflects realities that touch on somethig far deeper than good times. We live in a fallen world that has no hope to offer. Those who search only for good feelings will be out of touch with what really matters in life. It's true that lasting happiness does not come through anything this world has to offer, but through eternal realities found in Christ. Ecclesiastes 7:2

Your father has passed from death to life. And it may be difficult but there is something to look forward to in Christ.

I am not a Bible thumper by far. But I do have compassion and I am a much better person than I used to be.

 
mcgheeworld
Feb 28, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: ltdanjumbo Show

There is a purpose to this life. However, it's up to you to figure it out. He has the power to stop the pitbull just like Jesus had the power to lower himself from that cross. We also have the power and the choice to believe in Christ and show our love to our fellow man. However, some choose to deny GOD. HE wants us to believe in him and make this world work. He wants us to be happy. Imagine, if you were a believer you may be a happier person. Would it be worth a try if GOD promised you happiness and wealth(not just financial) if you believed in him and spread the Gospel? HE doesn't want to deny us, but he doesn't want us to deny him either. It is what it is. It's like you loving a girl (wife) whatever but she doesn't love you. She left you at the alter dude. You make countless attempts at winning her love, you never stopped loving her. YEARS PASS! 10 YEARS! You have a family, kids, etc. You win the lottery (70mil.), she contacts you and wants to come back amd reap the benefits of your winnings. Do you take her back? Do you disregard the fact that she hurt you deeply. Or, do you let her into your house with open arms. If you're Forrest Gump you do but, you're not Forrest. GOD is not human so he has the ability to forgive at its deepest level, however, he chooses not to. Wouldn't you agree that He does have that right?

 
fish
Jun 23, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
This is a easy argument, it's about faith whether you beleive or not. Those who don't beleive will think he's cruel or doesn't exist

 
sgttruth
Mar 11, 2009
0 convinced
Rebuttal
I would be afraid to debate this. We don't deserve the air we breath.God is merciful and holy but he does judge.

 


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