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Atheists v.s. Everyone else ( the big ol' Religious debate)
Religion

ex0pepper
Jul 30, 2007
19 votes
11 debaters
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2
2
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+ Add Argument

10
Atheism is a better life choice


dereksemeraro
Jul 30, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal

Religion promotes reliance upon another being.
Atheism promotes skillfulness from independence.
Atheism promotes facts with reason.
Religion promotes no facts, no reason.
Atheists aren't given the guilt trick.
Atheism requires no contribution from man.

Also, Buddhism is an Athiestic practice. I find that better than Christianity.

 
juggernaut
Jul 31, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: asimpleman Show


The whole universe and all the life that inhabits it as created in 7 days.

The whole universe and all the life that inhabits it, was an outcome from billions of years, of evolution.

Statement number 2 has more proof and reason than statement one.



 
tggdan3
Jul 31, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: rhys Show

"How could such a massive movement exist if there was no logic behind it?"

Here is how:
1) Religion is taught to children too young to use critical thinking.
2) People are scared into their religion by being threatened with an unhappy afterlife.
3) Religion refuses to change with new scientific advances and assumes that an old book with some contradictions is nonetheless true.
4) Relgion relies on arguements such as pascal's wager, "that's why it's called faith", and "try to disprove god" rather than physical evidence or observational evidence.
5) There are many conflicting religions, they cannot all be right. However religion is quick to denounce other religions besides it's own.


 
tggdan3
Jul 31, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: helpme Show

Ah but that is where you're wrong.

The atheist life is MORE valuable. Why? Because you know your life has an end, so you are encouraged to live your life to the fullest. You know that when you die that's it, so you better do the most with the time you have.

The religious person can do nothign with his life and just sit there hoping for another chance in the next one.

 
ex0pepper
Aug 01, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
It's about people thousands of years ago trying to control
people.
Priest-God says you should give me your food
Farmer-Why, who is God?
Priest- he can make you feel good or bad. I'm the only one who
can hear him, and he told me that i can take your food.
Farmer-I need this to feed my family!
Priest- then you will, uh, burn!
Farmer-Oh, my!
Priest-Yes! and, uh, um, be eaten alive!
Farmer-Oh goodness, can you ask him to forgive me?
Priest-if you give me you food!

Then he preaches to the town and so on......

 
juggernaut
Jul 30, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: gogopoet Show

Buddhism is a practice. Not a religion.

 
ex0pepper
Aug 01, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: asimpleman Show

It is intelligent to assume there is no god

 
ex0pepper
Aug 01, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: asimpleman Show

"Stop
arguing from personal bias and debate from facts and logic."

Logic. O.K.
A giant man with a white beard ( or fat belly or 6 arms) controlls all aspects of life.......


Yeah......Logic.....

 
helpme
Aug 01, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: helpme Show

Why does my post physically appear so choppy? that's not he way I typed it.

 
ex0pepper
Aug 01, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
how can a lie be a better life choice?
Oh, wait, thats what your trying to explain

 
ex0pepper
Aug 01, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: asimpleman Show

"Financially: religious people give more than non-religious
people
to charities. Of all sorts of religions to all sorts of
charities. (see http://www.arthurbrooks.net/statistics.html).
This helps must more than just religious causes, but also
humanitarian causes as well. "

Yeah, brainwash citicens so they are ignorent and give money.
thats WAY better

 
ex0pepper
Aug 01, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
an apropriet title for this debate would be truth vs lies



 
ex0pepper
Aug 03, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: helpme Show

How so?

 
gogopoet
Aug 04, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: helpme Show

RE: "In most religions, the life one lives has eternal consequences. That gives purpose and meaning to one's life. The atheist only has the life he lives, then nothing. So to him, what you see is what you get. there is not much purpose in that."

While I agree that striving for religious ideals can be a noble cause, it can also be reprehensible, depending on the ideals in question. The same can be said of atheistic ideals.

As far as I can tell life is its own purpose. Beyond that, individuals are free to assign themselves whatever purpose they want. The options can generally be boiled down to one of two types, self-serving purposes or community service. From my point of view, the Christian goal of attaining eternal salvation for self is no more magnanimous than an atheist's humanitarian efforts which are done to solicit community favor. Extreme self-sacrifice, without an expectation of reward is not a sustainable ideal, since practioners die off rather quickly.

In the final analysis, it doesn't matter whether one adopts a religious or secular purpose IF we take actions that serve to promote the continued existence of life.

 
ex0pepper
Aug 06, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: helpme Show

It makes sense!

ever heard, you can catch more flies with honey than vinigar?

same idea, accept, its kind of a mix between honey and vinigar

 
complexion
Dec 09, 2010
0 convinced
Rebuttal
God = Santa Claus

 
+ Add Argument

9
Religion is a better life choice


asimpleman
Jul 30, 2007
2 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: dereksemeraro Show

Your argument is a fallacy because you beg the question because you assume that there is no God.

Your first point: religion promotes reliance while atheism promotes independence. This is true, but if God exists, then independence from Him might be undesirable.

Your second point: religion has no facts or reason, while atheism does. Let's assume God exists for a moment. Then, God exists (fact), and I know this, in part, because of the existence of creation (reason). So religion does have facts and reason. You only believe it doesn't because you assume there is no God. That's not a valid point, that is simply your assumption.

Your third point: religion guilts man into action, atheism doesn't (at least I think that's what you mean). This makes three assumptions. One, that all religions involve some sort of guilt trick. Two, that man is not guilty before God. Three, that atheists aren't required to contribute anything. But if there is a God, then He might be justified in finding man guilty. He may not use a guilt trick to make man act. And, atheists must not contribute to a denial of His existence.

In each of these, you assume that God does not exist. But it we are talking about religion such an assumption can't be made. If there is a God, then atheism is the most profound denial of reality and the most illogical philosophy available, which would make religion better by default.

 
rhys
Jul 30, 2007
1 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: dereksemeraro Show

"Atheism promotes facts with reason. Religion promotes no facts, no reason."

Being an Atheist, i assume your blind prejudice against religion is based on facts and reason? how could anyone reasonably say that Religion promotes no facts, no reason? How could such a massive movement exist if there was no logic behind it?

On the other hand all atheists are logical, well informed individuals. i don't think so.

"Atheists aren't given the guilt trick.
Atheism requires no contribution from man."

I dont understand what either of these statements mean? could you explain them?

 
gogopoet
Jul 30, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: dereksemeraro Show

RE: "Religion promotes reliance upon another being."

Taoism and buddhism are atheistic religions.

RE: "Atheism promotes skillfulness from independence."

I've found no evidence supporting that claim.

RE: "Atheism promotes facts with reason. "

Belief and disbelief are two sides of the same coin, faith. Facts neither prove nor disprove the existence of a deity.

RE: "Religion promotes no facts, no reason."

That is false. While true that the central concepts of theistic religion is based entirely on faith, it is also true that Buddhism and Taoism promote the attainment of factual knowledge of all subjects.

RE: "Atheists aren't given the guilt trick."

Really? Why are Buddhists always trying to work off that "bad karma?"

RE: "Atheism requires no contribution from man."

What kind of contribution are you talking about?

 
donmega
Jul 30, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: dereksemeraro Show

Then get your own moral code! Quit using ours!

 
helpme
Jul 31, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Religion usually involves being created by deity for a purpose. People involved in religion are urged to live towards that purpose. The general purpose of most religions are the promotion of love, charity and hope. This gives people a reason to live. Then at the end of life, there is either an afterlife our another shot at life on earth, or some reward.


Atheism teaches that the formation of life is clinical and coincidental. This generally means there is no real purpose for living other than to ride out what the cosmos deals out. True, atheists share love charity and hope. But to what end? A civil existance until you die? There is no lasting value to the atheist life. No matter how you lived on earth, it all ends with a hunk of carbon matter rotting in a dark grave.

The religious life is the better choice.

 
asimpleman
Jul 31, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: juggernaut Show

You assume that evolution requires no God. This doesn't answer the religious question at all. In fact, some religions appeal to evolution.

Secondly, you beg the question again. If your statement 1 is correct, and God did create in 7 days, the statement 2 is completely wrong. This would make it the antithesis of logic and reason, regardless of what you think. You only assume that statement two is better because you assume there is no God. Stop arguing from personal bias and debate from facts and logic.

I'm not sure how you are quantifying proof, but the quantity is somewhat irrelevant. I could come up with tons of evidence that my dog is a cat. That doesn't make it true.

 
asimpleman
Jul 31, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: tggdan3 Show

Since your points are true of all religions at all times, you've only highlighted problems you might have seen (or have evidence for) in certain cases in certain religions. This doesn't make religion and worse than atheism. I've seen atheism use many of the same tactics at some time or another. I've even heard some atheists criticize others for their atheistic beliefs.

I know of few religions of which all of your points are true at the same time.

 
asimpleman
Jul 31, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Why Religion is better:

For society: religions generally promote some sort of moral code. This is better. Atheism, by its nature, has no basis for a societal moral code. (Note, I'm not saying atheists do bad things, necessarily, only that they have no basis for a morality beyond their personal whim because nothing higher than the person determines right or wrong).

Financially: religious people give more than non-religious people to charities. Of all sorts of religions to all sorts of charities. (see http://www.arthurbrooks.net/statistics.html). This helps must more than just religious causes, but also humanitarian causes as well.

Well, there's two reasons for now why religions are better than atheism.

 
gogopoet
Jul 31, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: juggernaut Show

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/religion
Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
1 a : the state of a religious a nun in her 20th year of religion (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Please note that definitions 2 and 4 describe Buddhism very well. And Buddhism is not without belief in the supernatural. It incorporates a belief in reincarnation, which is inherantly a supernatural belief, as is the idea of karma.


 
ex0pepper
Aug 01, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: asimpleman Show

"Financially: religious people give more than non-religious people
to charities. Of all sorts of religions to all sorts of
charities. (see http://www.arthurbrooks.net/statistics.html).
This helps must more than just religious causes, but also
humanitarian causes as well. "

Yeah, brainwash citicens so they are ignorent and give money. thats WAY better


 
helpme
Aug 01, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: tggdan3 Show

The value of life is not determined by religion or atheism. Life itself makes us all valuable. The debate is wether religion or atheism is the better life choice.

The argument you pose is one of desperation. "I only have so much time, so I better hurry up and do lots of good stuff." There is not much value in that way of thinking. Once again I ask to what end do you do this stuff? So people will remember you? So your name lives on? So you get as much stuff as you can?

The religious person is encouraged to live his life to bring glory to the God/leader they follow. They do this by the way they live. It usually involves caring for the world and its people. That is a very noble purpose and to do it involves active life, not sitting around and waiting.

In most religions, the life one lives has eternal consequences. That gives purpose and meaning to one's life. The atheist only has the life he lives, then nothing. So to him, what you see is what you get. there is not much purpose in that.

Religion is the better life choice.





 
helpme
Aug 02, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: ex0pepper Show

Wow! you seem very angry.

 
helpme
Aug 03, 2007
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: ex0pepper Show

Your posts are very sarcastic with little to no argument. It comes off as anger or frustration.

 
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: dereksemeraro Show

In theistic Satanism,the meaning of live is to learn. We beileve that both science and faith has a place. We don't have to rely on Satan, he teaches us to do things for ourselves. If you honestly think that every tiny "by chance" thing that happened to create life just happened by itself, you are in denial. Look at evolution, something is obvioulsy behind it. If you want more proof, walk into a biology class. Life is so complicated in the way it all comes together that to think it all happens by itself is delusional. Besides faith is a better lifestyle. People with faith don't try and kill themselves as often as atheists do. I understand your right to be an atheist but I feel bad for you.

 
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: ex0pepper Show

Oh get real, this is blind ignorance. The main problems of faith have been indeed caused by humans not a deity. Anyone who beileves can hear, we don't need some priest.

 
0 convinced
Rebuttal
Rebuttal to: juggernaut Show

You are comparing your beileve to a very strict set of faiths. In other words, what about other faiths? I beileve in statement 2 of your arguement, and I beileve a deity caused it to happen.