i understand your logic with the use of that idea
in koth.
so instead of him vanishing how about him
abandoning us?
would anything relay change?

and please don't argue by saying he will never
abandon us.
the same argument rests. nothing the world would
be what it always is"shit"

well first get to know your opponent i am not a
theist but an atheist instead.

none the less i under stand your logic if god is
to be true.and i understand what you see god as as
well.
you see him as existence it self something you
cant draw on a canvas {no yes}

but the idea of this debate is not about his
existence and his role in reality but instead
about his workings and his function and benefit to
a healthy society

by abandonment i mean if this god were to be an
emotional being and he ceased to benefit humanity
and his role in a healthy society what would
become of civilization today?

the argument this is is not one of existence but
one of gods separation from his role as the
harbinger of love and peace and the impact it
would have on society.

my position would be that the world would still be
filled with hate and death and people as evil as
Hitler allowed to live.

yours is the apposite perhaps we fall into the sun
into the sun or have a world war III

by the way PLUR with this debate

good that we understand each other now
and i will like to add that the motivation for
this debate was born out of the cliché. that if
god is there why is there so much bad in the
world.

so here is my defense indeed i mess up at trying
to get my question through and i agree that if
there is a god and he helps us the least bit and
he stops helping us change will take place. it has
to it is a law the tiniest amount of change will
breed more change. but the question is. would the
change really be all that drastic as to end the
world? would we really be lost with out his
guidance?

not only this but, do we not have enough hate and
death in the world? are we not capable of guiding
our selves?
is the end not already near with his probable
existence any way? we have enough weapons to end
humanity 10 times and it can happen.

i understand your logic of change

but what is the ratio with and without he she or
it.
how much more suffering would there be in the
world with out em.

my answer is a ratio of 100 to 101 that is if he
is there.
and if there any more suffering and there indeed
is a small change id say God does not do his part
well in being a god.

i will wait for your disagreement so that i may
show you some picture of the suffering world today
starting with the depleted uranium children. in
fact feel free to look them up yourself. and see
how well this god works. and i do not say this
with anger but with sadness.

I find this debate very interesting. Mainly
because I'm not sure I understand how God COULD
"abandon" us. I mean, you say that you are trying
to create a debate distincly diffrent from God no
longer existing so I'm trying to understand how
God leaves his place in existance...as existance
itself without not existing.

However that seems to work...if we accept that God
exists and we both seem to accept that if
he/she/it does that God is the bases for existance
in the universe then by the vary nature of God
finding some way to seperate from existance there
must be some shift in the interpertation of
reality.

I'll wait until you make some more arguments/ my
fall break starts on Friday and I'll have more
time to debate.

Ok, I see what you mean now. I think I also see
why we seemed to have a miscommunication there for
a second. It comes from this “his role as the
harbinger of love and peace.” I think this is a
poor understanding of what God is/would be. (Again
for the purposes of this debate we are assuming
that God does exist) I think love and peace come
from human beings…since we have free will. Sure,
God has these traits as well but they are not
exclusive to God.

For the purposes of 1 argument let’s use that
interpretation of God however. If God is the
harbinger of love and peace then these emotions do
don’t derive from people or their free will but
directly from God. God would impart these emotions
into us and it would only be through God that we
experience them. If God were then to abandon us we
would no longer be able to interact with God and
thus no longer be able to experience love and
peace at all. Certainly that would be a change.

Now let’s pretend that Humans have free will and
have a capacity for good and evil and God is just
this nice being who does nice things for us from
time to time. If God were to stop doing those nice
things that would also be a change. Even if it’s
not a cataclysmic change it is a change and any
change in history changes everything eventually
(butterfly effect.)


Here’s my problem with your position. You assume
two things. 1 God exists. I realize you don’t
actually believe this but you assume it for this
debate. 2. God does something with humans that
he/she/it will then stop doing. The second is
implied by the term abandoned. To abandon
something is to do something and then stop. God
can’t abandon us without changing history.